545 | William Kaufman | Director | MAN OF WAR

We catch up with director William Kaufman on how he keeps his action films grounded in real tactics while still making audiences care about the people on screen. We talk New Orleans as a home base, Man Of War as his latest swing, and the teams and habits that make lower budget filmmaking hit like a bigger box office movie. 

Transcript

Welcome Back And Season Reset

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hey, welcome to the Protectors Podcast. We are back. I love this new season. I feel like we've got a fresh restart because the show's been going since 2019. 544 episodes so far. Five or five, I can't even grasp that there's been 544 episodes. The last time you've been on a show was episode four in June of 2023. Can you believe that? It's bizarre. It is. And I've noticed some physical changes between both of you and I since then. And it's great, man. It's great to see you out there.

unknown 0:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Better to be healthier than be rounder, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

You know, I thought about it. And like, you know, we're going to be talking about your movies, we're going to be talking about your background and stuff like that. But there's in the film industry, it's like a you are the

Directing Demands And Team Rhythm

SPEAKER_00 1:05

when you are the director and you have such a hand in all of this production, you've got to be on it like 24-7 for as long as that movie is produced. So how are you hand-I mean, you've been doing this for a while now, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

How have you been handling like getting into that rhythm?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I mean, I think I sound a bit like a broker in the record, but I have such an awesome team that, um, and I've been like you said, I've been doing this for a minute, so I um I feel really comfortable in that place. And I think that I I just try to be super prepared and have the right people around me that are all chasing the same thing, which is a great movie. So uh that's that's really what I'm after.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Well, you do have a team. I mean, that's the biggest thing about all of this, is that you can't do it yourself. And uh, you've been in this game a while, but and a lot of people that you bring in have a military background, they have some sort of protector background, they've been around a block, so they know what it's like to work in a team, and a lot of that is probably rubbed off on you. So when you first started integrating these military type people into your into your world, have you ever been like, wow, this dude's got some good advice?

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I mean, all the time. I mean, some of my closest friends are some of the most dangerous people there are, you know, and and um I've learned so much from them from, you know, kind of a Monday morning quarterback type of, you know, where I can get this information. And it I really want to try and be as authentic as a movie allows. And I've been lucky to have producers that respect it because most people in the the lower budget world don't, wouldn't pay for it, won't back it up. And um, I think it shows. And so I've gotten to have some really, really talented people handle the the technical and uh uh military side of things to try and keep keep it as authentic as possible.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Now you do really get into the guns and gears, and you have you're always charging handles. I see it all the time, every one of your movies. Someone's always charging something, whether it's an AK, whether it's an AR, or anything else like that, it's solid. Um, a lot of this probably did rub off from probably one of the absolute best movies ever made was Heat, Michael Mann. 100% very, very complex storylines. And it's, I mean, it may seem simple on the outside, but when you look at a Michael Mann film, there's a lot of advisors, there's a lot of people that have brought intent down to the very like minutiae of the movie. I've noticed your movies have also kind of gone into that realm of like, hey, you know what? You have an operator out there, you have someone who's gonna rob a bank. They're gonna have enough gear and enough guns to actually do it.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Right. And I think in having the right gear, I've become a bit of a gear nut um through my friends. So I'm the kind of person who would rather have um a little of the best than a bunch of the not. And um, so you know, like wanting to make sure that that the little details that people go, those are the kind of shoes we would wear, or that you know, the the the war belt is rigged out correctly, you know. Um the and the and the slings legit, or there's all kinds of little details on from my contacts from my friends, I've been able to add as, yeah, the general public, you know, doesn't know, but you and others uh will go, well, unless the

Gear Details That Sell Realism

SPEAKER_01 4:45

general public watches someone come around a corner, do a shoulder transition with their long gun, and they don't they don't know that it looks cool to them, but then people like you that know, they go, okay, that's legit. We're not always perfect, we've done things that aren't, but we fight like hell to try and be as close as we can.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

I think that that will set you apart in the long run, absolutely. It already has, because I tend to watch a lot of the movies that aren't made with like 30, 40, 100 million dollars. I like the ones if I could watch it like the channel for one is one of my favorites because I could watch it and it seems like a big big budget movie. You know, the way it's filmed, the lighting, the Max Martini, come on. Yeah, you know, you have a lot of different people in there.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

That's that's my baby. That's uh that's got a very special place in my heart. I mean, it's my neighborhood all around is we're blocks away from I'm a block away from where Max got in a gunfight before he got wounded. And um uh Clain's house is three blocks away. So I mean, this is this is my story, my neighborhood. And so um that movie, I also have have a buddy who like is is an ex military guy who literally, like, if I was gonna rob a bank, I would do this, this, and this. And you know, you imagine you know, William Us over there going, okay, I'm sorry, what? Okay, which which gun would you have? Oh, you'd go 308, so you could punch through body armor and vehicles and things like that. So um there's it's it's just uh you know that that's kind of um a guilty pleasure to do that correctly and and to watch the audience respond to it. And you brought up heat. I've had people compare uh the channel to the town, to Den of Thieves. We all went to the same school, and that school is Michael Mann and and Heat. And and so I think um those are all great movies. I'm not taking away anything away from them, but I mean Heat's Michael Mann was the guy that when I went from being more of a I was the kind of kid, I was a little kid running around with a video camera making movies and wanting to do my dad showed me, you know, uh, the dirty dozen and force ten and and all the the peck and paw movies. And that's you know, so I was not like a typical film school student who wanted all wanted to be the great American art house director. I was the one who wanted to make those kind of movies, you know. And so whereas I I created some of my film school peers as being they want to be Hemingway, I want to be Frank Miller, you know, comic book guy. And so, you know, I'm a big Walter Hill fan, John Carpenter, of course, the legends, Tony Scott, the the Scott brothers, I'm all those guys. But for me, it was just um I I knew that from a young age that was the kind of movie I wanted to make. And Michael Mann transitioned me into what I think is more kind of more mature, more character-heavy stuff that where he showed me you could do action stuff, but you could you could be really invested in characters. And um I feel I feel like the channel onward, I have some movies I'm very proud of before that, but the channel onward kind of allowed me. I had a producing team that invested in me as a filmmaker versus just uh he's a good action guy. Let's you know, he can drive the car. Um, so

The Channel As A Personal Story

SPEAKER_01 8:05

that that's been important for me to kind of show who I am um with this team.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

The thing about being the action guy is this is like action can only get you so far. You can if you lose the storyline, if you lose like people are invested in these characters, you kind of give up after about 20 minutes. You don't care about them, you don't care about them at all.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

And if you're not invested in the characters, you're just watching a stunt show, and you don't care who lives or dies, and it there is no element of danger and threat. So to me, yeah, that's what's so important.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Michael Mann hasn't always been Michael Mann that we know. I mean, the original he was a TV broadcast because he wanted to get it out there. Now, if you go back to the, and you uh you got to follow your trajectory of like his age and and how he's going too, is like the original Manhunter is getting it's gonna be re-released now in its true form. And you're like, you have to look at these and go, okay, these were cutting edge, but these are the standard for people like us. I figure we're uh we're roughly almost the same age. You might have a couple years on me, but it's the comic book generation. We we've read these types of like when you say the Frank Millers, when we read those like those late 70s and 80s where they were really getting into characters, right? A lot of the books, everything, all the action started pulling out, like it's not just a broken wounded person, it's the protector who is like, hey, look, this is a character you want to get behind because he's not your typical John Wayne.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Well, and that's what I dug about. You just named I I love Manhunter, uh, you know, um uh William Peterson in that. I mean, um Will Graham, you know. Um and also you go back to James Conn and Michael Mann and Thieves, right? With James Belichick. You'll see he has been him. It's just that as his success movies gave him more opportunity to show off who he what he was capable of.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yeah. But that's what I mean. Like you're you may have like one of these these lower budgeted movies who don't, you know, uh the budget of heat compared to Manhunter and the way the look and the scene and everything, you could tell there's a there's a big difference there, and especially the caliber of actors. Obviously, Manhunter had a lot of great actors for the time, but they weren't like you know the the box office deals. Like they weren't celebrities, they're great actors, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Ferreira and Dennis Ferreira and all that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, cop, Chicago cop, you know. Right, you can't go wrong, and that's what's great about integrating he he knew, like you know, and you know, like he knew, that you have to integrate realism into these characters, you have to bring people from that world into this world, and you're doing that great. Now, you have had what is um Dave Meadows, yeah, Osiris. You can tell. I mean, there's a lot of different people that that show up in your movies who are the real deal.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Yeah, so like Dave Meadows uh was in Osiris, but I had uh his buddy, um, which it's it's pretty bizarre when you're knowing you a friend of yours is a very highly decorated operator, and he's talking about the TAC advisor he wants to bring in as being you know on another level of him. And and Hammer came in and did the film, and he was fantastic. But I mean, I think about the channel. I had Scott Phillips, which is you know, a former team guy, a very good friend of mine, and and um and I had on that film also Ed Spiela, who plays the um, he's one of the US Marshals, and and Ed's a 30-year SWAT uh veteran of of of Dallas. So it's like uh DPD. So um, and there's just things, the language, and my friends are all in the NOPD. There's there's just a language that I again there I am in the corner going, okay, I got that, you know. And and then they hear it and they, you know, just expressions that are part of their world that try to give as much authenticity as possible.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Now you also bring in some, I mean, one of the best vampire movies in the entire world is The Lost Boys. I don't care what people say. Lost Boys, come on. This is that's that's the greatest the best one. Jason Patrick. Now you're working with him, and obviously, if you're in the 80s, you know him, but now you're actually getting to work with these these Hollywood like legends.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Right. And Jason and I, we did a movie called Shrapnel. Um and we it was funny because he's a strong personality, and some people you know think he's too strong. He's not, but he's passionate about what he does, right? And he really, I mean, if you're not prepared, he's gonna eat your lunch. And he wants to know that you're passionate, he wants to, you know, they know that you care, and we had a great experience on it, so much so that when I did this last movie, Man of War, I literally called him up and said, Hey man, I really I really could use you. Would you do this for me? And um, like and we talk all the time, and like the true friend he is, he got on two days worth of travel to get to me, shot for three or four days. And um and I remember him saying, Well, is there any money? And I go, Nope. He said, Okay, I'm on my way. And and he backed me up, and and that was kind of a beautiful thing that have have some of these relationships that are just really good, solid, great human beings.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Well, you have to imagine that, and one time he has he wasn't the big he was kind of like up and down, up and down, but then you have narc, which is a lower buddy, lower budget movie. And if anybody has not seen Narc, I highly recommend it because it's literally one of my favorite movies, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

And I think he's fantastic in it. Him and Rayleigh Oda, it's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yes, absolutely. And it they that was like gorilla filming, like on the street, you know, nobody knew they were really getting filmed. But hey, Jason's going around acting like he's a cop, right? Which is great. You have to get into the roles. Now we're jumping into we're gonna get into Man

Heat And Character Driven Action

SPEAKER_00 14:10

of War for in a little in a bit, but I do want to go back to the channel and your connection to. I mean, obviously we talked about this in 2023, we talked about the channel, we talked about New Orleans, but I kind of want to refresh this. I mean, New Orleans is like your lifeblood now. And we have the Irish Channel Studios, we have you were there. You're still there, you're still filming there. You're you're living in a location where you film. What drew you to there? I mean, you have an international base. I mean, from your childhood all over the place, but now you're in, you're like, boom, I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

This isn't this is my I think I had I, you know, I spent a big chunk of my life in Texas and I love Texas. Um, I'd been coming to Louisiana to New Orleans for off and on my whole life. I got engaged here. I knew that I want there was a connection to the city, to the soul, to the history that really spoke to me and my Irish German roots. This is um the Irish Channel, um, which were all Irish and German immigrants. And um, so for me, I think there was a European side to this too, which you know, a big chunk of my childhood was in the UK in London. So I think it was like just there's a a way people are here that's kind of um, they call it the big easy, right? It's this laid-backness that um and kind of accepting and friendly. I mean, I can go to the poshes parties uh with the the highest levels of the local blue bloods, and I'm treated like I'm family, and I can I can go to the other end of that spectrum and the same thing. So I just I really dig the energy in the people, and my wife loves it, and and and my daughter lives here, and my son's gonna move down here um at the end of the year. So it's just I'm not going anywhere. This is home.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

And it's just a random question because I always wonder how this works out. So big Hollywood Productions, obviously, they have like political and lazy. I know how they can get into a town and they could they could film there. I mean, they got the budget, they could support some philanthrop philanthropic cost, anything to get into the film. How do you shoot a movie like like the channel? Well, I I think the permissions and everything. I've always it's always it kind of intrigued me.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Well, I think part of it was because I'm live here, right? Because they know I'm not a Hollywood guy who's coming in to snag tax credits and run away and maybe not pay people. So I have history with the community, and um kind of as I got I got to know different people who have um a lot of outreach. So there were lots of people who, and that wasn't always that way. I mean, I remember going out with one particular guy, I won't name, uh kind of a gangster of the neighborhood, and I wanted to hear the stories of the street, and I'm I'm with my one of my producers, and he keeps patting me on the chest and patting me on the back, and and my friends getting scared out of his mind. He just and finally I was like, man, if you don't want, if you're worried that I'm gonna record you, that I'm wearing a wire, then just don't talk to me about it. You know, and he's like, Lift up your shirt, and I go, okay, you lift up yours. And so we ended up hitting it off, and then he's the kind of guy that everyone knows, and you know the reputation of the city. Um, and I I uh so it allowed me to get in and get permission. Um, the mayor of Harrihan is a very good friend of mine, but that was an intro, right? And and Tim um was instrumental in helping us shut down streets for the car chase of the channel. And we had this huge gun battle in front of this bank with on a a live rolling street. Um, as we have, you know, a half a dozen fully automatically I apologize.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

We got cut off right there for some technical issues, but here is the rest of the interview with William Kaufman. Well, we're back, brother. And now I really do want to get into man of war. This is the second part of the interview because is the this is the bread and butter of where you're at right now. Now, Lamonica Garrett has been in a lot of like he's he's all over the place now. He like, I mean, if you look at uh Lioness and I mean, really terminal list, yeah, everything.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

He's the man of the hour. He's he's this is it's his turn.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

I really think it is, and I think this is gonna be his like his next next big thing. Like, you know, he's he's pretty much holding up this whole movie, so it's on his shoulders, but talk about pressure, huh? I think he crushed it.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

I'm not worried about that at all. I think he um I I think he this role, him in it, is long overdue for him as an actor. Because that's the thing about Monica is like you look at him and you go, Okay, there's the friggin' terminator, right? This um incredible physical guy. But I think what what I find in addition to that that's so interesting is just um kind of his emotional depth as an actor, his intelligence as an actor, which really like we talked about earlier, about the emotional connection to the audience. So people want to see him win.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

People want a protector, they want to support a protector. And in this movie, it the concept is he's he's a protector. He's going to save someone in a very hostile land, and he doesn't have the backing of the entire military. He's one man. Let's get into the where did this story come from?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

You know, my writing partner, um, my creative partner, Paul Reichel. Um, he's also my executive producer. So he came to me with this idea. He he had a he had an idea, basically the same idea, but it was in a different um war zone. And it was in what I believe to be a way more um controversial situation. It was based on a true story. And um I also knew the challenges of our budget and everything else. So I I filmed three three movies now in Bulgaria, and I have the very best there is there. These guys who work on the biggest movies in the world, the extractions, the expendables, all that

Advisors On Set And Working Actors

SPEAKER_01 20:25

stuff. And they come and do my smaller films and and just crush it and um work just as hard and make me feel like I'm the hundred million dollar director on set. So and and um it just made sense that uh Sophia Bulgaria would be this this double for Keith and for Kak. So um oh I we really want to do a story about. I mean, this the theme of the film in is not a political one, it's really about what someone will go to for the lengths of their family, for love, for for duty. And whether it's it's Monica Garrett as Connor, or whether it's Andrew Howard as the as the Ukrainian fixer who's his tour guide. Um, they're both doing it for their own reasons to protect someone.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

And the baddie. Was it Daniel Bernhardt?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yes, Daniel's the best baddie, and probably the worst I've ever had in a movie.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Oh, like actually, like the worst bad guy. You know, we're not talking aliens here, we're talking Daniel Bernhardt.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Great actor, the worst, most villainous, horrible human being character he's playing. What is he like? He's awesome, you know. Daniel um is Swiss, uh, but he's lived in America forever. He's super intelligent, really smart guy, really well read, and just a really kind human. And um he came out also to help us um because we had a very challenging budget. And um he was good friends with uh with Stani um Stanimere, who's my second year director and um stunt creator, and they had worked together on these big, big movies. And um the call went out. Then Daniel and I talked. He read the script, he really responded to the script, and um he came out and did the movie.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

I'm glad you brought up stunts because one I have a really good buddy's son. I mean, it's been probably decades. He's he's our age, a little bit, a little bit older than me. Um years and years of just abuse and and this taking a beating, but that is the key to a lot of these movies, especially obviously with the action movies, you need good stunts. Have you been using the same the same stunt style, uh, same coordinator, same people?

SPEAKER_01 22:49

In Bulgaria, I've used the same coordinator every time. Um uh my my stunt coordinator in the states is Louisiana-based, Tyler Galpin. And uh he's done his father and I worked together in my first film 20 years ago. And um, and I've worked with Tyler, that's Jeff Galpin, and he's been around, he's a legend, he's amazing. And Tyler, uh Jeff was on a big movie for the channel, and um Tyler stepped in, and Tyler's one of the most talented, ambitious, driven young filmmakers I know. And more than just being a set coordinator, he's he's just really solid filmmaker. And so it's between those two guys, that pretty much has been my story.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

When you're when you're mapping out these storylines, are you the you and uh someone else is writing it? Who's who's doing the actual writing and script building?

SPEAKER_01 23:45

I'm I'm primarily the writer. We do a lot of the story development together, but it's it's primarily me.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

So obviously that's a lot of a lot of stuff going on in your mind. And I I kind of equate it to like the a lot of these novelists that I interview. How do you map it out? Do you literally, as you're writing it, you build this universe, or do you have like this whole universe in your mind?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

I think um for me, there's a lot of guys who can just free free write and just just go after it and create it all as they go. For me, I need a lot of structure. I'm ADD enough already, so I need to have a lot of confidence in the pacing. So I start with an outline and I get really um which Paul and I work on together, and then um we anything I've done by myself, then I run it by him, and we finally you know get to a point where we shake hands with it, and then um I tear loose and then I share that draft with him. He gives me his thoughts, and we kind of have partnered up, and the end result is what we've what was done on these last three movies.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

And we did talk about you are going to talk about your upcoming projects in a little while, but I do want to kind of focus more on man of war. I let's say I'm I'm a new audience. I I've never watched any of your stuff, and why do people want to see this movie?

SPEAKER_01 25:10

I think if you're into unapologetic, gritty genre action, um this is gonna be your cup of tea. If you can watch the trailer and go, that looks cool, you're gonna love the movie. The movie's, I think, bet better, bigger, and better than the trailer. Uh it's not one of these things where we're shown the best bits. Um, I think if you're if you want to see something with fart and um invest and and go on a thrill ride and an adventure, um, that's that's the reason

New Orleans Home Base And Permissions

SPEAKER_01 25:40

you go watch my films.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

I think it is. I've noticed there's been this trend in action movies, and I'm not gonna throw any under the bus because that's just not what the show is. But it's almost like you're watching a video game. It's like you have to go from point A to point B to point C to point D to get to the end. And it's very, it's just so script, it's just a very blah script. There's no like real character development. It's just we're gonna shoot here, we're gonna travel from point A to point B, we're gonna shoot there, and then we're gonna go and we got to steal something, and then we got to go here and do it. You know what I mean? It kind of has that video game type feel. And we're not talking about like Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1 where we had this incredible storyline. We're talking like the like the the more the the newer video games where it's just kind of like blah storyline where you got to get just so you can get into the multiplayer mode.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Does that make sense? I know what you're saying. I don't think anyone goes into a movie with that intention. But I think what happens is, and it all goes back to me. I I'll talk to I brag on my producers, it goes back into people believing in the movie and everyone after the same movie. And if everyone I've worked on movies where people just didn't care, all they wanted was a poster and a trailer, and that's a very disheartening uh way to work when when um that when you're really passionate about what you do. Uh so I I think it's it's um that's what it is. It's whether people have decided that the that this level of effort only brings you a 3% increase financially overall. Um, so we don't need to do that. Um, and so I think it's about uh the filmmakers' passion to do it right and to really care about what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

You did bring up producers and you did bring up the production of these films. And a lot of times when you talk, I'm talking to the director, that's that's a big deal. Or you talk to a star, that's a big deal. The people behind the scenes don't get a lot of this the spotlight. So I'd like to give you the opportunity to be like, hey, you know what? Obviously, you can't shout out the whole cast and crew, but it's almost like, who would you like to recognize?

SPEAKER_01 27:53

I mean, without a doubt, I mean, I mentioned Stani, I mentioned Tyler. These are these are instrumental as second

Back From The Cut Into Man Of War

SPEAKER_01 28:00

directors and and stunt cleaners. For me, it's gonna go back over and over again. I mean, my my whole I could go on a list, but for me, it's the the this producing team. Um so on the channel, I'm looking up at the wall, uh, the channel in Osiris. This was um Andrew and Isaac Lewis, twin brothers out of down, Texas, and then there's John Robleski and Christian Sosa. That was the four of them. And um they were it was just a different experience working with producers that cared as much as I did, you know, and then and that fought tooth and nail for all kinds of things that lower budgeted films don't get. And then going into uh Man of War, um John and Chris Schumer on other projects, and I ended up doing that one with just uh the Lewis brothers and you know, their filmmakers, directors. I just produced their movie, Bethesda, with Max Martini in it, and uh Brianna Hildebrand. And so I I think it's like it's just a special, unique relationship, you know, almost like a theater troop of guys. I mean, you I I've heard stories, I've never had this experience outside of my own story. But if like you think about people like um Eastwood, apparently he he's worked with the same people on every movie, you know. And if you look at my films, you'll see a lot of the same players over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

So yeah, I was watching a documentary on Eastwood the other day in filmmaking, and I was like, uh, for the unforgiven. And Gene Hackman was talking about his style, and I'm like, man, that just to be in that room, to be on that set back then. Oh, I know. Yeah, one thing I do want to recognize is that you know, you and I both had a different pivot in our life, especially with physicality and and and being there. And like, I know you're a father, I'm a father, and like my kids look at me a lot different now that I'm not rotund to say. We're at that age where we have to kind of keep going to be healthy.

Casting Lamonica Garrett And Story Theme

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Now, what is your this is kind of off off topic then movies and and stuff, but you know, the the the show has changed a little bit. What are you doing to kind of keep, I mean, you look good, you know. What are you doing to get that way?

SPEAKER_01 30:18

I think it was like there's been times in my life I've kind of seesawed um or roller coastered. Um, but I think this job is so hard. And I know how that sounds, but I'm saying it's demanding, it's 16, 17 hour days. Um that you know, five to five days a week on the clock, and then you're spending your days off either washing laundry or prepping and planning to how you're gonna get yourself out of the problems for the next week. So I um trying to be in a better healthy position is super important. So I mean, I think um it is, it's it's diet, it's exercise, it's it's uh and as you get older, it's you know, it's I I never really got it. My my athletic thing was I liked I really was into Muay Thai, I was into boxing. That was what was my exercise passion when I was fitter. Um, and but I think strength training has been something that really got me. Um, and I'm no gym rat, but I'm I'm way healthier than I was, and I'm um and it's I think it's instrumental to not just you know my career, but like you said, to my family. Um you know, I just think it's super important.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

It has to be, and like you get to a certain point in your life where like, yeah, you have your career, and your career is you know, directing and producing in the film industry, but you also have to have like a personal life, yeah. And you have the physical aspects. Do you do anything outside of this? Or is it like, are you just completely engulfed?

SPEAKER_01 31:56

No, I mean, I I have my own hobbies. Mo I mean the 90% of my free time is with my wife, she's my best friend. Um with Nicole. I mean, my my hobbies are not your typical. I'm I don't play golf. Uh I'll go, I'll go shooting. That that's a passion of mine. Um I you know, it's like uh big surprise probably to people, but um and I think um it's it's just I think part of that fitness became kind of date night too. It became um something that became uh a lot more interesting, you know, and kind of just a different chapter of our lives.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

So yeah, like you're you have to age gracefully at certain times because uh if not you're gonna age very quick and you're gonna go down really quick. So you have to hit the point where you're like, okay, time to change this up.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

I've said that to a buddy of mine who struggles, and it's like it's not about how long you live, it's how well you live to that finish line, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

So well, you the other thing too is when you're traveling, there's a lot of different things that you see just taking walks. I mean, Bulgaria's got to be beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yeah, I mean it is, and um, that was um I would walk to the you know, I'd go on my little runs and walks to up to the studio when you know when I was in prep, which is all first time I went, I didn't think it was gonna be any big deal, and then I realized what the elevation was, and um and but I mean it was uh yeah, it's a great place for that. And and Bulgaria the Bulgarians are fit,

Writing Process And Producer Shoutouts

SPEAKER_01 33:35

they're healthy, you know. They I mean, other than everyone smokes, they're they're they're they're very that you know, they just don't have uh the the grocery store. There's an organic section. The groceries are organic, you know. Well, and it's it's just a much healthier place.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Now you did mention prep. You are prepping for the next project in Bulgaria. Um anything behind the scenes? You want to you want to toss a title? Anything about it?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah, I've got a movie that looks like Lamonica and I are going back to Bulgaria. Um, I can't get into a lot about it, but it's uh lost cause. So kind of think um Terminator Meets kind of book of Eli. So that's uh that's the genre on that. So I'm super excited about this. This was a short film that I wrote with plans to make when I was um in my early 20s, and um I've come back to it and I co-wrote it with my daughter, and she made it way better. And with Sarah Kaufman, and um, and um I'm I feel like it's one of the best things I've as a script I've been a part of, so I'm I'm uh really excited about it.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Uh yeah, I didn't realize you had uh family members following you into the industry. That must be a really cool feeling.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Yeah, Sarah is my editor. She she cut Osiris, she just cut the the brothers' film Bethesda, and she cut Metal Hua.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Wow. Yeah, I uh if I only wish, my kid is going to college this year, and uh it's it's a different experience. And one of the things we're doing before we go there is go to Japan. So I do need this is a personal note. Where am I Japan? Here we go. I'm going to Tokyo, Kyoto, and Hokone.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

You've had an amazing time. I haven't been since I was very little. I mean, I was born in Kobe, and my father worked for um an American bank in Kobe and Tokyo. Um, my formative years, my high school years were in Thailand. So if you ever need to know about Thailand, I can hook you up.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah, so I kind of wanted to pivot into that too, is like, and we're going to wrap up the interview here in a minute, is like you have had a big international base. And you in some of your previous

Fitness Habits In A Demanding Career

SPEAKER_00 35:50

interviews, you mentioned you ended up on movie sets when you were younger and all over the place. That must have been kind of like a very big, kind of like almost like a catalyst of like a different worldview to get you kind of into creativity.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

I think it was. I mean, I think it was I saw it for real. I saw that it wasn't just the magic up on the screen that I'd been chasing as a kid. I saw it was something that that was executable. You know, you could have a dream and execute on it. And um, then when I came back, I went to to school, and I ended up seeing uh, you know, I'm the generation, you know, be a handful of years behind me was Robert Larriguez and Tarantino, and you had these guys like like Joe Carnahan, the director of Narc, um Robert Rodriguez, the director of Mariachi, and you know, just very, very successful directors. And he and he was the one who, even though my style is completely different and our paths are different, um, he was the one that made me go, okay, this thing that everyone tells me is impossible and ridiculous. I I don't I can see that it isn't. I think there is a path. So that was what took me down that path.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

The 90s, the 90s, the independent movies of the 90s were really. I I can't, I it's just the the framework of what solid movies are nowadays. I don't think you have anything like that before then.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Yeah,

Next Projects Lost Cause And Origins

SPEAKER_01 37:20

I mean, and that's all driven by technology, right? From the the cost of shooting film and the cameras and the lights was and the editorial side of it was so cost prohibitive. Um, that I was right at the the end of that, and right at the beginning of the the reds and all the other digital formats. Um so um we we did do our first two films on film, but then transitioned quickly.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

If you could be on any movie set ever, which one would you want to be on? You can't say he. That's where I was gone.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Uh without a doubt. Uh true romance. Oh, yeah. Uh uh written by Tarantino. That would be the one.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Uh in which scene? Are we talking Gary Oldman? Are we talking James Gandalfini? Drexel.

unknown 38:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Clarence and Drexel. Um yeah. So what a movie. Well,

Favorite Sets And Final Sendoff

SPEAKER_00 38:20

brother, I appreciate you, and we're definitely going to check out Man of War and all your other previous stuff. I need to watch Sinners and Saints. That'll be my homework.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah, check it out.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

And anything left for the audience before we we call it a day.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Go see the movie. You're gonna love it.