The Protectors® Podcast
Welcome to The Protectors® Podcast, where the valor meets the storyteller. Hosted by Jason Piccolo, a seasoned veteran and retired special agent, this series is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by the courage and tales of those who pledge to protect us. Beyond the front-line stories of bravery and dedication, this podcast goes a step further, weaving in the perspectives of those who bolster and narrate the protector's journey—featuring a remarkable lineup including New York Times Best Sellers and acclaimed Hollywood actors.
The Protectors® Podcast offers a diverse array of voices, from those who wear the uniform to the authors and entertainers who amplify their stories. It's a unique blend that highlights not only the raw realities faced by our protectors but also how their sacrifices inspire the narratives we cherish in literature and film. Each episode is a testament to the interconnected worlds of service and support, bringing listeners an unmatched depth of insight.
Dr. Jason Piccolo is a retired federal agent, former U.S. Army Infantry Captain (Iraq 2006), and author.
Past Guests Include:- Sean Patrick Flanery - Andrews & Wilson- Mark Greaney- Stephen Hunter- Remi Adeleke - Florent Groberg - Clint Emerson - Travis Mills
The Protectors® Podcast
536 | Eric Immesberger & Brent Cartwright
We often limit ourselves by age, thinking our best contributions are behind us, but life offers multiple opportunities for reinvention regardless of your current age or stage.
• Different versions of ourselves emerge throughout life's journey – from career phases to parenthood to retirement
• Finding your "why" creates the foundation for discipline when motivation inevitably fades
• Consistency matters more than intensity when building new habits or pursuing new paths
• The transition from high-adrenaline careers requires having a clear purpose ready for the next chapter
• Shifting from "I have to" to "I get to" transforms obligations into opportunities
• Physical fitness serves as both literal and metaphorical preparation for life's challenges
• Taking care of others provides powerful motivation beyond personal achievement
• Preparation before major life transitions prevents destructive mindsets and behaviors
• Success in one area often indicates how you'll approach challenges in completely different domains
• The discipline to show up, especially on days you don't want to, separates those who thrive from those who merely survive
Whatever season of life you're in, remember that your story isn't over – it's just entering a new chapter that requires the right mindset and consistent action.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
you know what? We're just going to restart recording Eric boom. You know I was so welcome to the protectors. This is the new and improved protectors. We're talking more about life and things that we do in our life, especially for us older folks. But this doesn't really just pertain to people who are older. This pertains to people who are trying to make a change in their life or they have had a change in their life and we want to learn from the lessons. And because that's the thing, listen, I'm 52 years old now. I talk about it all the time. I am 52, but I don't feel 52. I don't feel like this is my last days, and I think a lot of us.
Speaker 1:As we get older, whether that's in your late 20s, you're hitting that 30 mark. You're 30 going to 40, 40 going to 50, 50 going to 60, and so on you think your life is over, but it's not. It is not. But what you do is you do go through different versions of yourself. I've had at least three or four different versions of myself in the past two or three decades.
Speaker 1:I was agent officer, special agent, whatever, leo. For 23 years I was former captain Jason Piccolo. Dad is one of my best versions. But there's different things, there's different cycles. My body has gone through A lot of physical cycles. My body has gone through from hitting over 300 pounds to getting down to 220-something to just getting motivated to move forward and staying on that path. That's why today I'm you know, brent and eric are here because we're going to be talking about the different paths we've gone in our life, our lives and kind of how we could, how we've changed these versions of ourselves. Because I know for a fact that these two did not start off and they're at that same place they are now, because they are not the same person. So welcome to the show, guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me thanks for having me back, buddy so let's do something a little bit different. I used to do the q a thing, but I really I've got my life down to 45 seconds. Listen, and and here's kind of how I want you guys to frame it as well is listen.
Speaker 1:1990s, I was a. I was a US Army soldier enlisted. I was artillery active duty. I was intel in the reserves in the guard I commissioned in 99 as an infantry officer, decided to go into the federal government. I was a border patrol agent, a special agent with the US Customs, who became HSI. I've been a special agent with a bunch of different agencies. I retired as an associate special agent in charge in 2023. In between there I got a bunch of education. I'm an associate adjunct professor in a bunch of different schools.
Speaker 1:And what else did I do? I deployed to Iraq in 2005, 2006. I did my time in Iraq in 06 as an infantry captain, but I was assigned as an anti-terrorism officer for the Combined Joint Special Operation Task Force. Nothing exciting no real exciting stuff for me there, but the best thing I've done in the past decades is become a father. So that's kind of how I want you guys to kind of explain who you are. I've got mine down to about 45 seconds, so kind of give us that brief 30,000-foot overview of who Eric is and who Brent is. So, eric, if you want to go first, that'd be great.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much. Yeah, your career is impressive, to say the least. So blocking it, the way you did the 80s and 90s, was local police, uniform detective investigator, getting a lot of quick hitter, undercover experience, leadership experience, which all that experience literally prepared me for the challenge of ATF, which I went into in 98, retired in 2019. So almost 21 years in that, and immediately five minutes after retiring, I opened a furniture building business Send it Woodworking, and as passionate about that as I was about law enforcement work, I woke up. So a phrase that'll aptly describe me and probably Brent and a lot of the guys that were in the gun squad out here in Kansas City. It was a, you know, motivation will get you on the playing field, but what keeps you there is the discipline. The discipline where everything, any anything we do is going to be done 110 percent, whether it's, uh, going out to get a piece of pizza or doing a search warrant, everything is approach. The way we do anything is the way we do. Everything is approach. The way we do anything is the way we do everything. So when people have asked me, well, kind of summarize your attitude and I said well, think of a motocross rider in races like top echelon motocross, and I saw a guy interviewed once and what he said stuck with me for literally the last 30 years. He said every single race I go in, there's only three things that are going to happen I'm going to break the bike, I'm going to break me or I'm going to win the race. There's no fourth direction. And that's literally. That could sum up the way I have gone at everything, and that's both law enforcement and being a dad, three kids approach all in everything. If I'm playing catch with my middle guy, we make it fun, we put the challenge. It's not two guys just standing on the lawn. I'm like, all right, now go along, now go sideways. I'm gonna make you die for this one. Watch out for the dog pyramids. Uh, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:And the same thing uh, my youngest, my daughter, uh, you know, brent is her track coach, a cross-country coach. Uh, she loves she goes. Hey, he talks about leadership lessons, just like you do, he goes. I love that guy, um, but I'll take her on runs. And again, it's the challenge that this and and my kids know everything they could possibly complain about. I've got a five word answer uh, to everything. Like we're on a run. Oh my god, it's so hot, can we just slow down? I'm like, huh, yeah, it's hot in iraq too. Would you like to go there with 100 pounds on your back, or would you like to stay in a T-shirt and sneakers and stay on the trail? I think I'll stay here, so maybe I. You know, good boss, bad boss, they both left for the day. I was a different kind of boss and I brought that intensity every day to whatever we were doing, and it's served well so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll probably get in that intensity here in a little bit, I assume, but I'm going to let you go. I'm going to go now because I know if I let you keep going. So, jason, here's the deal. This is how I know this dude. If I don't stop him, we'll be four hours later, and then I I'm still like waiting to go and I'll already forget my, my 45 seconds.
Speaker 1:You know what this? He would be the best person to interrogate, hey, so tell me about what you did on that day oh let Now Brent, give us your overview, and I really do want to get in what Eric was talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, he's spot on. He's an amazing, amazing boss and leader. So we'll totally get to that. So I'll make mine quick. So if you caught my episode before, you know kind of a little bit of my spiel.
Speaker 2:But I graduated high school in this little tiny town north of Kansas City. I was a cross-country and track star. That was really kind of my thing was running. I was a little dude, I signed up for the military and just like an idiot Again, don't recommend. I went to the recruiter and said, hey, what has the highest sign on bonus? Cause I'm just trying to pay for college. And they're like, ah, we'll stick you in the art tote artillery unit. So for those of you know, right, it's 102 pound HE shell that you're shucking around and I weighed like 109 pounds. So totally stupid, know your lessons before you start signing up.
Speaker 2:But I got done with my active duty service, went to National Guard, went to college. I was like I'm going to be in business, marketing and advertisement. I dabble in finance on the side, so maybe a little bit of that. And then, uh, so some of my, you know, I get, I get activated and deployed out of my national guard unit and that kind of throws a lot of things you know, askew for me. I get they say, hey, we don't need um artillery men anymore, we need military police. So now you're a police officer. I was like, oh, me and police. I wouldn't say I was a bad dude, slight comical mischief would be a good word that I would get into. The local police knew me pretty well but I never really had handcuffs on but a couple of times and always got out of them before I got booked. So for me to be a police officer, people are like what the no, no, this guy, I don't see that guy being a cop. So, uh, but man, sure enough, I kind of bit the bug and I ran across my roommate, uh, from Fort Lewis, and he's like dude, I'm a cop in Kansas city, you should come do a ride along. And so I made my way into patrol.
Speaker 2:From that point I went. I needed something more. I went to the undercover role and I really found my drug of choice to be in full supply and plentiful and never ending, and that was adrenaline. And I, you know, like Eric said, right, it's go, go, go nonstop. And the motivation level was there super high. I was not one to want to sit around until 1 o'clock in the afternoon to figure out what the hell are we doing? It's, let's get out and let's do our job. I mean, it was the best job in the world.
Speaker 2:So I eventually got assigned to Eric's gun squad, which is, you know, one of the premier units within the entire Kansas City region, and that's where things took a turn. For those that know my story on an operation that you know, thankfully Eric wasn't there that day, because he wouldn't be standing in front of us right now if he was. That's the one and only operation I ever know that Eric went on was the day that I got shot, and we can talk about a little bit of that why Eric wouldn't be here, because of the things that he would do hard charging but, uh, that led me into right. Eventually, they retired me in 2023 for my injuries, and now I travel around. I wrote a book, travel around, do my own speaking and thing, and I'm just, you know, out here trying to trying to teach people the lessons that I learned the hard way, so they don't follow the same footprints. And if they do, you know how the hell do you get out of the freaking hole you dug yourself in?
Speaker 1:So you know that is a great point. Right, there is a lot of us want a roadmap. We were searching, we're searching, we're searching. I'm on YouTube all the time trying to figure out my next step when it comes to like you know whether it's going to be like, I'm going to do 5k, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do 5k, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. But there there are certain roadmaps you get from someone who has experience. I could look on YouTube and be like, okay, I want to do this, um, but a lot of times I'll pop up with a video of a 20 year old kid who has no. Hey, yeah, they have a certain experience, but their, their body and their mind is a little bit different than what mine is.
Speaker 1:And one common thread that I've seen talking to both of you guys is all in, all in is kind of a mantra that a lot of people have. They do all in, but there is an issue with all in. You go all in, but you forget about that other word consistency and discipline. So you can go all in, but you got to remember you have to be able to maintain it. It's a marathon. So, like, let's say, you're going to start the woodworking business. You know you go all in, but then you hit a roadblock or something else in life happens and you kind of go away from it. So you lose that discipline. You lose that, you know that drive.
Speaker 1:But the thing is, how do we maintain this discipline? How do we maintain this tempo of being all in? And it does come down to consistency and it doesn't come down to like you have to be 100% every day. You can be all in, but you're still at the end of the day you're like, oh man, I need a break. But you take a break, but then you get right back into it. So what are your guys' thoughts about when you're pivoting into a different role, and especially post-career? That's really what I want to look at now is because you guys have both been all in in the LEO world. Yeah, that's great. You could do that for a long time, because you know what your job is, you know where your responsibilities are and you know how to do it. But when you pivot into these next roles and you go all in, how do you maintain that discipline and consistency?
Speaker 2:Eric, you go ahead.
Speaker 1:Buddy and Eric is there. Like a safe word we should say If it's over 30 minutes. Do we like say hey?
Speaker 3:Believe it or not, I did have like a safe word in the gun squad out here in Kansas City. There was a big platypus on my going away cake. The guys Again. I surrounded myself with people just a little bit smarter, a little bit tougher, a little bit everything than me. My role was to create literally a free fire zone where the investigators, cops, could be cops and provide them every. Nobody gets to piss in our circle but we get to piss outside on everybody else's circle. You got to know where the guardrails are. I always like to go to the edge of the cliff. I take a gander over it, but I know not to step over it. So, maintaining the discipline, um, you gotta have. You know the military is big on the specialized units with the why you have to have. Why am I doing this? Why am I seeing the guys I work with more than I see my own family? I'm not making $2 million a year doing this, so the payoff is really satisfaction. And are you drilling a hole in the boat of society? Or are you rowing a boat and are you really making a difference? Are you really helping people? So I always in in other news interviews I've done. Yeah, why do you do this?
Speaker 3:The um 20 year old single mom pushing a stroller on truce avenue in kansas city, which is an absolute shithole uh, 12 year kid, same place, no options, surrounded by mayhem, can't fight for himself. So that's where we come in. We get to fight for the good people that can't. And so my oldest son has been in the military for about seven years now and he had approached me in high school and said hey, he lived on the water. He was well on his way in high school to becoming a certified captain to run a commercial vessel on Long Island. So this kid in 12th grade had a twin diesel 36 foot commercial boat, paid for, and he would regularly, him and his friends, 60 miles offshore in the canyons going shark fishing, free diving. He, his life was the water. So he's like hey, dad, I uh thinking about the Navy. Okay, good, why do you want to do that? He says well, you know, I love the water, I love the boats, I love all of that. And super patriotic kid, he's like I want to, I want to do something special, I want to work with the best, I want to be all I can be. And so I'll let you behind the little curtain of why I left ATI.
Speaker 3:I was the guy that said I'm not leaving this job until the last day, the last second mandatory retirement. And I left 18 months before that. Why? So, when my son was in college and he was really training, training to get into the Navy, he was in the delayed entry program. He had been working to get a special warfare contract, which he got, but he was two months from shipping out and I said, all right, I'm going to leave early. So I got the last 60 days where I'm really going to be able to see you every day and we're going to be at the high school track every day. We're in a 430 club every day. Push, push, push, Go, go, go. Try and keep up with the old man. And you know that didn't last long and I was trying to keep up with him.
Speaker 3:But he made it to Naval Special Warfare, not in a role that is the face of the special warfare, but he's in a very tight special unit group and whenever anybody says, well, what is he doing in the Navy, I'm like well, he's into benefits Him and his guys make sure people get what they got coming to them and they are brutally good at what they do. Um, so, and that led to my middle guy. Now he wants to be he's looking at Marsock Marines a Raider. They brought that word back from World War II so he got into the 430 club. It could take him to the track every day and Brent is also his coach now. So you know long-winded answer to your proposition, but the why I think you got. If you don't have a why, riding around in uniform is awesome. You have to make a difference. But if you, you know that's the motivation, but the discipline, the why, why am I doing this? That will literally take you through the worst times and see you through everything. I think.
Speaker 1:You know there's got to be a secret sauce. What are these people doing that's going to get them up and get them running, get them motivated and keep them motivated. But if you don't have a why behind it, or a mission or something that's going to have an end state or wins, you have to. I tell people all the time when you do something, you have to have a win. You have to, you have to have a win. That's why I started doing like competition shooting at one time. I still do it. That's why I do the 5Ks, because to me, winning is getting over the finish line. Hey, I'm slow, I'm a turtle club, but anything I do, it's like whether or not it's going to be a ruck in the afternoon, whether or not it's going to go to the gym, getting there, doing it, finishing it is a win. The thing is, if you don't have a why, why am I doing all this stuff? And it's the same thing with you. Why are you doing all this stuff? Your why was your next mission was hey, you know what. My kids need me. They need their dad more than this job needs me. And you said hey, you know what, I'm going to step out. My why is now getting them to be successful. And that mission will never end. That mission will never end until you're in the grave. But that's your why. That keeps you up, that keeps you motivated. When I do any of these stuff now, when I do these 5Ks and stuff, I'm doing them with my daughter. My why is for her to look at me and go, wow, my dad is not in a grave. My dad may be in his 50s, but he's moving, he's pushing. I throw the ball with my son every day. He's, he's um. Not every day, johnny, I'm sorry, buddy, I try to do it every day, but I get out there with him. I throw the ball because he's, he's in football and stuff, but I'm mobile, I'm flexible, I'm able to move. My why is to get up and do it. That is what we need. Is we need the why?
Speaker 1:You know, brent, he hit the darkest times in his life, the darkest times in his life. Shot, bleeding out life, thought his life was over. But he got a new why. Your why will shift. It doesn't always change, but once you have it, the main thing is to continue to be consistent with it. You're going to have those mornings, those nights, those days that are just really rough to do it, to get on it, not to. You're like, yeah, you know what one day turns into two days, three days, four days, five days and the next thing you know you're wise out the door, you're sitting on a couch or an e-mobile. So when I'm looking at you guys, I'm like, huh, okay, so let's talk about that too well, I see, you know.
Speaker 2:So I look at it as and that's why you know, eric's brought it up a couple times uh, the guy that I ran cross country for in high school is still the freaking coach across country, the same same hometown, right, and I reached out to him and I was like man, you know, I'm retired. I got a lot of extra time in my hands. Uh, you know, I didn't want to just sit on my hands and not do anything, but I also looked at, you know, some of these kids and I, you know, similar to when I travel around I talk to different police you know, usually it's police and training conferences and military folks uh, you see, some of the younger folks, not not just these little junior, high or high school kids, but younger folks within law enforcement, and it's there's. It's a difference when you look at the motivation from some of the older farts, like me and Eric. Of course he's a little older than me, but you look at it, I'm like man. I really wanted to make a change and a difference in people, the way I used to always have. That was my why and the mission was and I know I'm making a difference Now buying a half ounce of meth here or there.
Speaker 2:Uh wasn't necessarily the big thing, but uh, you never know, when you kick that door in, that half ounce could turn into be something you know huge. Uh, I mean, that's held eric. That's what we did when we we busted, uh what, the dude that turned in the casino night. That was a half ounce meth by the started that thing and it turned into a big wiretap and all and you know what we ended a reign of a lot of people. So you never know where these small things you know balloon and blossom. But yeah, man, I turned it into like I'm going to motivate and I'm going to use the knowledge and the skill set that I have as a leader and a motivator from all these other things I've done, motivator from all these other things I've done, and I'm going to bring it to people, the young people, because the days and age now where everybody just wants to stare at the phone and they have a hard time communicating, well, I'm like, put that phone away. We're running, we're talking when we're running and let's talk about you know the why, and running I mean it's you know, and let's bring in the lessons to it and make them better runners because there's a point where you can just go out and, like everybody else, goes out and runs like everybody does. You're going to have natural talents going to bring you so far. Your, your, uh, training will bring you so far.
Speaker 2:But that key that's going to make you the winner to your best of who you are, is your mental mindset, and people just over us they overlook that completely. So we did a huge big trip with our cross country team and I got you know, the coach puts out the hey, what want to have a coach lesson every night at dinner around this campfire? What do we want? What do you want to talk about? I grabbed the list. I was like, oh, I'm going to cherry pick, right, and I found the one.
Speaker 2:It was mental toughness. I'm like, yeah, get out of here, you're all, you're all sitting down, because that's what I'm talking about. Uh, and it was because that makes, in my mind, the biggest difference and people just don't even realize it. Man, like everybody else, goes out, run six miles a day. Some people have a little better talent, some people don't, but this is the guy, that in the girl that can go out and just like, physically, push themselves past the brink of what they think their body can do, because they're just absolutely tougher. That's your winners. So that's where I get at it and that's going to carry over in life and in their careers throughout.
Speaker 2:I mean, if they can go out there and push past and I'm not saying work yourself to death like me and Eric did out there and push past, and I'm not saying work yourself to death like me and Eric did right, that was maybe, it's true to say it was probably detrimental to a lot of things. Right, I mean. But there's something to be said. Like you know, the purely successful people can know to push themselves further, but then the real successful people that want to have success in their home life know when to walk and step away and step back at times and enjoy and not miss out on all this stuff. I mean I know me and Eric, and probably you, jason, have missed out on a lot of stuff for the sake of our community and our country. But I wouldn't trade it in, but I think people need to make sure they don't go too far on that. You know, commitment level.
Speaker 3:Indeed, one of my jobs as running the gun squad, which was a task force group in Kansas City, missouri, talent acquisition I didn't need the fastest people, the smartest people, the strongest people, I needed the right people.
Speaker 3:And when I first met Brent, he was in the undercover squad in our secret, squirrel little building that you could drive past a hundred times and you would have no idea what was behind those brick walls. Um, and I so every specialized unit, the elite of the, the elite the, the heavy duty gang people, undercover squad, interdiction squad, the gun squad, the career criminal squad all in the same building and I got to see the elite of the police department every day. So we would need undercovers beyond what we had in the task force group to do stuff. So I heard about this guy, brent, got to meet him, but then he did a few undercovers that bled over, you know, basically for the gun squad, and I said much like when I saw, took my now wife out on our first date and dropped her off without even a hug or a kiss and I said I'm marrying her. It was like when I ran into Brent and saw literally everybody was talented.
Speaker 2:He did give me a hug and a kiss, though.
Speaker 3:He was super talented. Like I saw that extra extraordinary factor, the, you know. I don't know what it is, but he got it. He had it and I said, hey, love to get you in the gun squad. That would be like a home run for everybody. Oh, I'm interested.
Speaker 3:And then I went on a campaign like Sherman through Georgia. Uh, slow, continuous, steady, dripping water on rock, started talking to the, to the. All the police department was hey, I really want to get this guy, I want to get the. Oh, that'd be a great fit, great fit. And I, I, I wouldn't stop, I just get. You know, nothing is ever fast enough for me. It's like if, if I see the line from a to b and I know that that's the way to go, uh, it's not. I can never get to be fast enough to make, make the magic. Um, but um, the campaign worked and Brent got assigned to the gun squad. I literally was like Bravo, what, what an asset. Um, that guy's rowing a boat. He's not drilling holes in the boat but drilling holes in other people's boats. And the thing is so one thing that Brent had mentioned is like half ounce meth by. You never know what that is going to bring you to was talking about.
Speaker 3:Uh, we, the gun the, an element of my group. We were up on multiple wiretaps, undercovers. We were buying meth through a group and can't through a main guy running a thing in Kansas City and he was hooked in directly to a cartel representative and the cartel is alive and well in Kansas City. I-35, i-70, dead center of the country, the two major routes to move anything, and it intersects in Kansas City. You might as well put like the it's the bathtub drain of all that is bad. All dirt roads pass through Kansas City, all violent dirt roads. So when Brent referenced I'm doing this, I'm doing that, I'm into a guy.
Speaker 3:We knew our main target and this is the beauty of Brent's talent and reflective. He melted into the ATF. This is the way we do things. It's easy, yeah, it's easy to arrest the guy in a wheelchair. You just go up and arrest them, go after a track star. Not so easy, yeah, it's easy to arrest the guy in a wheelchair. You just go up and arrest them, go after a track star. Not so easy.
Speaker 3:Uh, or I need buys made into this major guy. We have no informant, we got nothing, but we know who he is. Nobody's doing nothing. But we know who he is, know what he's doing. So we realized he bad guy setting up in a hotel room of probably the highest quality casino hotel in Kansas City there's some dives, there's some middle of the road and there's one really nice one. Well, this guy got a room in a really nice one and he would bring his uh, sales subjects come to the room and he had pounds, pounds of meth and he was doing a landmine business and then he would go hit the blackjack table and he'd go back to his room. Go back to the blackjack table, cause if you're on meth you don't have to sleep for like 45 days.
Speaker 2:I'm going to stop you because that was I hit the blackjack table. This dude hit the high, high limit slot, so he's like dropping a hundred dollar max bets on the slot. I forget so yeah.
Speaker 3:So Brent is got his undercover partner with him, the guy that they were in the army together that brought brent into the kent city pd and he is equally hilarious and talented. Good dude, good dude, um. So we give him a few thousand dollars. We go. Sometimes you got to make your own luck and we need to make our own luck tonight. We need get in front of this guy, do what you do best talk to anybody about anything anywhere, about you know, any stratosphere society, society we can become best friends with and try to get by. They make contact. They start bullshitting this guy in the casino.
Speaker 2:I was hugging all on him to man.
Speaker 3:Brent is. Hollywood missed out on getting this guy 15 years ago, cause he, literally he's got a talent that very, very few undercovers are able to bring to the table instantaneously the ability to get somebody to like you and want to hang out with you and want to. I don't know who you are, but I'll sell you three ounces of meth. Yeah, follow me. And coupled with Brent and his partner, they can't lose. They could have closed their eyes and bet on how many times the phone's going to ring at the pit bull One again. They couldn't lose. They're making money. They're making money. And they made contact with the bad guy. Back to the room Buy meth, boom, positive, great conversation. Back to the room buy meth, boom, positive, great conversation. Back to the, to the casino. And they can't lose. They can't lose.
Speaker 3:Now I'm the uh, on-scene commander of this out the osc, as they call it. And then there's a case agent that's running the case. I'm you know. I don't know what I, I still know how to handcuff, fingerprint and get coffee for people, but I'm responsible for everything that's good, bad, whatever happens. That's on you, big guy. Well, unbeknownst to me, well, unbeknownst to me, brent calls the case agent and says hey, positive buy, positive conversation, fantastic, and I've won several thousand dollars.
Speaker 2:I've turned 800 bucks into like six grand.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, what does the case agent tell him? He says you can't win money. You can't win money, you can't bring back to the table more. So the conversation goes just lose it all.
Speaker 2:I was like dude, let me go back and buy him out. I'll buy his kilos.
Speaker 3:If Brent would have called me, which you know the right thing is. If you're an undercover you don't need to have three people on speed dial. One person, that's it. Otherwise you get lost in the sauce. But if the case agent had called me and said oh, just got a call from Brent, they're up like thousands of dollars, I would have said back to the bad guy, back to the room buy, buy every shard of meth that six grand will buy. I'm like that's great. There's other people that would have said, oh my God, I got enough to take the kids to like disney for two weeks. And some guys would have done a little bit for me.
Speaker 3:But, uh, you know the art of the undercover. One of them is you need to always be looking. How do I enhance this situation? How do I turn a into b and c? How do I bring more people, more conspirators, into the web? Uh, what are these people doing? What are they up to? How do they do this? How do they do that? Um, and that's the skill that that brent had. And we still laugh about that casino night because I'm like, oh my god, jason here I.
Speaker 2:The guy tells me lose all this money. And I'm like I, I can't, I can't do it. He's like no, no, you gotta lose it. Get it all back to the casino. I'm like so I go to my partner, who wasn't really too in tune to wanting to lose this money. He's like dude, I can't, you can't piss off a gambling guy. You're gonna, your karma is bad, don't do this. I'm like all right, well, I'll lose it all.
Speaker 2:So we start betting like absolutely terrible bets, you know, put as much as we can. Out there I'm showing like 12 and the dealer's showing a 10 on the upright, so you're supposed to hit. I'm like stand, win, let it ride. We're screaming. I was like dude, if we have to lose this, we might as well lose it, right? So we're tipping all the waitresses like 200 chips. I'm like hey, bring us another, bring us another beer, bring us some shots. So you know we're the pit boss is rotating out dealers the whole time anyway. But it was like fuck it, let it ride. Woo, everybody's like dude. He's sitting on seven. I'm like stand, stand, I lose it. I'm like fuck it, do it again what a life, you know.
Speaker 1:One thing I do want to transition into is, you know you both have retired from the career, from the job, and now that is a huge pivot. And pivot I always tell people is like when you're in the military you you're always pivoting left, right, reverse forward, stuff like that. You're always changing when you move from being in this type of career. Talk about the difficulties of getting out of that adrenaline flow slowing down to about 50 miles an hour. Right, when you're going a hundred miles an hour and starting up where you're going to continue to go your next phase. So let's get into that next and I know we have sent it woodworking brent. You're out there, you're doing your things with the book and and speaking. So let's eric, let's talk about you and like that first phase is like all of a sudden you stop short to to hang with your kid and get him upright, to go to the soft world. So how did you transition and pivot from decades of doing this stuff?
Speaker 3:Well, a funny little story about getting him ready for the Navy and the 10 years of his life before that. Because he said hey Dad, when I got off the bus at Great Lakes, you know, for special operations, basic training, basic training and dive motivation every morning, just you know, because you don't have enough to do up there he said, you know, I get off the bus, they time it. So every bus comes late at night. And the shark attack and the drill instructors they call them I forget what they call them in the Navy RDOs, rtos, something like that the shark attack, the scream fest, the what left turn. Have I done with my life? He goes. I had to bite my lip to not laugh. He goes. It was like I met 10 of you. You superbly prepared me for this. I was like yes, but the transition, I don't know how to describe it. I have a thirst for everything. I've been in bands since I was eight years old.
Speaker 3:The law enforcement was something that fell into my lap and I like if I didn't have bills, I would have done it for free. Literally, I would have paid the government to allow me to complete, have this mission set with these people, and the same thing with the woodwork. There's nothing more satisfying than I made that and, crazy enough, in 2010, I'm running a not running. I am one of the supervisors on a home invasion task force on the Mexican border. One of the ATF agents had been a SEAL and had been a BUDS instructor and he was also in the movie the Rock. When the SEALs you know the prison out there, alcatraz, the last seal that's alive and they focus in on him, that's who it was. It was him and a bunch of his former seal buddies that did that movie part. So I said, hey, steve, what's his name? Steve, my family's coming in for like a week. I'm not going to have a lot of time to spend with him, but on a Friday afternoon can you just give my son a five-minute tour of the Bud's facility in Coronado? It's like a five-minute tour. My swim buddy is the command master chief. He rose. We'll spend an afternoon there Outstanding my son's 12 years old wearing a yellow golf shirt. You know, he's just a kid that loves life. We go to the Bud's facility and he gets to watch the Friday afternoon follies and they bring them everywhere. They show them everything. So I'm taking pictures of them on the sand dunes by the water. I'm taking pictures of them on the grinder doing pull ups and push ups, standing next to the creature from the Black Lagoon. Oh, you want to be a frog man? That's the sign hanging around this guy's statue's neck. The bell helmets everywhere, just guys getting blasted.
Speaker 3:It's Friday afternoon, but every single guy that passed us on a run said hey, master Chief, hey, master Chief, hey Command Master Chief. And he said hello back to every single one of them. And he's like Patriots. They volunteered twice, volunteered for the Navy and volunteered for this. He goes Patriots, every single one of them. So then this guy probably had a hundred things to do, but he takes my son and brings him into a conference room off their quarter deck and he goes. Hey, I want your opinion, I want this 12-year-old's opinion. He goes. I'm going to show you a little 10-minute video.
Speaker 3:We've put together a program called Bud's Prep, because the people come in here we feel they're not physically 100% where they need to be Very tough, good, so they get done. Be very tough, good, so they get done with special operations, basic training. Then they got to go nine or 10 weeks to Bud's prep, then they go to Bud's orientation and then you're on the big field. So he shows him this movie and my son is like it's like the first guy that ever went to a strip club. And I'm like I'm looking at this and I'm like I think, I think he's found a thing that excites him. So I'm taking all these pitches and I'm like, ha ha, if you ever come back here, I want pitches in all these spots in your BDS.
Speaker 3:So I got all those, like you know, 10 years later, awesome in your bds. So I, I got all those, like you know, 10 years later, um, awesome. But you know the excitement that I hopefully infused into him to do the things he's doing, the, my 13 year old daughter, the stuff she's doing. My middle guy, what he's doing, um, and he's a brazilian jiu-jitsu like mechanic, like this, he, he's my, he's my train, my, my, my 16 year old son is my bjj instructor. He's a mechanic, but it's all.
Speaker 3:So I you know long-winded answer, because that's the only way I know how to do it uh, everything in life I was like nothing mattered. But what that moment was, if I was on a surveillance, if I was playing ball with the kid, if I'm watching a dance class, in the moment 100, 110 and you know the other 10 things I need to do. I'll get them done, but this is the here and now. So, living in the here and now and then transitioning from the craziness of law enforcement into run and send it, I love what I'm doing now as much as I love chasing bad guys. I couldn't love it more.
Speaker 3:Fantastic, um, you know, from the thrift savings program. Uh, being a government guy, um, to the point of cold sweats at night, I invested in that fund from day one day, one day. One. Money, money, money. Yeah, I got gotta eat ramen noodles, but thrift savings and that allowed me to build out the business. Zero debt, um, provide a provide, a life for the kids that I never had growing up.
Speaker 3:And I'm like, I'm thinking like the 20 things I wish I could have done, but you don't know, you wish you could have done them. Until you know, I just hit 62 and I'm like I really wish my dad would have pushed me to go into gymnastics, because I see these gymnastic, they're like, talk to some of these guys, like, what did you do when you? I did gymnastics and now I'm a wrestler and now I'm a bjj guy. I wish I could have done that. You know things like that. So all the things that I wish I could have done, it's like I make them happen now for the kids and I tell them and you're gonna do the same thing for your kids like I don't think there's one thing you want for, but if there is, you're gonna make sure your kid has it.
Speaker 3:In the moment, having the why and just wanting. If I have 10 free minutes in my life, I feel like I should be knitting a sweater. I can't sit down and do nothing. Can't sit down and do nothing. I uh, even if I'm I got the news going, I'm washing the dishes, I'm doing something with the dogs um, yeah, it's like there's no, like there's no downtime, and I love it I think that's probably your, your toughest part.
Speaker 2:I mean, right, he was so go, go. Go now me, I can sit down and relax now. I, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, this is one of the. The. The pivot a little bit here is like one thing that Eric brought up was that he had a little, and, brent, you're going to get into your, into what you did too, but one thing is you had a plan, you know. You had some sort of plan to your head. Your mind is not going to go into the.
Speaker 1:You know a lot of people want to get out of the protector community, whether that's military, law enforcement or first responders, is they get into the destruction mindset because they don't have a plan or a mission when they get out.
Speaker 1:You know, and your, your mission was your children when you got out and you already set up to where, hey, you know what I'm going to be able to take this foot foothold when I get out, so I don't go down the path of destruction. And, as we've seen a lot of the people we've worked with, as soon as they get out, they start drinking even more. They, whatever vices they had before they start doing even more, and a lot of times I believe is that's because they haven't prepared their mind to get into that next phase. And er, eric, I really commend you for keeping. The thing is, you were keeping fit while you were in, you were motivated while you were in and you didn't just hit a point in your career where you gave up, so when you left you weren't already in a dead mindset. So that's kind of what I wanted to talk about.
Speaker 3:Next was not how we keep ourselves from getting into that dead mindset so, uh, anybody watching this, the three guys you see here, uh, pt, physical fitness, physical training is a priority. Uh, if the body's not right, it's hard for other things to be right, and nobody likes carrying the 20 pounds extra linguine around. I've seen the fitness. I'm sick. I just hit 62. So I've seen the fitness fads. Going back to richard simmons and, uh, deal with me, you know craziness.
Speaker 2:Uh you do have a tony little gazelle in your house, don't you?
Speaker 3:the fads come and go, but what I always did is, um, functional fitness, and it's what I did with all the kids. It's like so you need a goal for everything. This was always my goal 60 second, all-out fight with an unarmed subject can't shoot him. What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Uh, 60 seconds is forever in a full-on ground fight. Uh, which is where you want to take it. And, and that's so, functional fitness.
Speaker 3:I haven't been able to do a pull-up in over 15 years, like a young and dumb youngster, when I was on our special response team, atf SWAT team, and we were training out at Camp Pendleton Good idea, fairy comes in the room. Hey, wouldn't it be a good idea after training today, let's do full kit pull-ups to failure, over and over and over, until we somebody passes out, and then, okay, tomorrow's another day. So the M4s, the full mag law, every piece of gear, the, the level four plates, the helmet, everything, pull apart. Max, I get down, shake it out. Max again, max again, max again. I uh tear both the rotator cuffs. But like every other guy, I'm like I'll just eat better next week, it'll take care of itself. It didn't take care of it, so I go to the surgeon and the guy's like, hey, listen, your rotator cuffs that destroyed, but I can fix them. But here's what I can't fix. You had no cartilage left. So, uh, you can do all the pushups in the world left. So you can do all the pushups in the world, can't do pull-ups, that's over for you.
Speaker 3:So I said, okay, good, easy transition. I'm like, all you need is sneakers, shorts and a five gallon bucket to throw up. And that's what I tell my. I'm like, hey, bring a five gallon bucket. What do I need that? Something to throw up in? Because that's the way today is going to go. But I need something to throw up in because that's the way today is going to go. Every day I'm in my driveway Every day. This was my yesterday routine.
Speaker 3:I did seven cycles of this Five burpees, five push-ups in each burpee. Then the elbows to knees, 100. 200-yard, 50-pound sandbag carry. Come back 15 squats, no weight squats. That's one cycle, seven times. And that to me, that's functional fitness. It's like I am training for that nut that is unarmed and this guy's a menace. And now his attention is focused on you at a gas pump, in the store, wherever. What are you going to do? Are you going to be able to protect yourself? Are you going to be able to protect yourself? Are you going to be able to protect your family? Are you going to be able to protect a stranger that's being robbed, accosted, whatever? So that's my fitness deal, and then I'll go to the track at 4.30, 5 in the morning.
Speaker 3:The beauty of the track that Brent isn't a coach at. It's like a college football stadium and they leave the lights on all night. Oh, look at this, just for me. I jump over the locked fence because I can't find somebody to give me a key. Brent, and I got the track to myself. I'm like, look at me, I was over there, but now I'm over here and I'm like I can't. I was over there, but now I'm over here and I'm like I can't believe I live here. This is like America. There's no needles on the track. You know the heartland called the heartland for a reason, um, but that's my mindset and I know it's Brent's mindset, with that physical training and you, I see your feeds every day. You're like you're after. I'll give you one. I'll try to make it a quick story.
Speaker 3:This is when I had the Long Island Task Force and I was in my late forties. Big advertisement everywhere the super Spartan race. Spartans have the regular Spartans, the super Spartan. It's about an 11 mile course. I think. There were 25 obstacles. There was a swimming portion and you had to swim underneath boats and, uh, I mean, there was a cliff dive. It was robust and it was awesome.
Speaker 3:So I get the youngster agents in brooklyn. They're like, hey, old man, we're all training to do the super sport. And I'm like, what do you mean? You're training. Well, you know, as soon as we come to work, like we go on and run and then we're in the weight room and we're doing. I'm like, uh, there's no firearms traffickers in the weight room. Like, okay, good, good for you.
Speaker 3:Uh, when do I train? When I get home at 11 o'clock at night now it's Eric's time my wife, hilarious federal prosecutor, and uh, hilarious federal prosecutor. And she would say, hey, chuckles, I got to get up to go to work, you got to get up to go to work, but these kids need to go to school and lunches and dogs and all the rest of it. She goes you want to PT? You know what time you can PT 4 am to 5 am, that belongs to you.
Speaker 3:But after the bell goes off at five o'clock, it's on like and I love that, like uh direction, I love it. Um, I should call my my wife, no slack mac. Like she's half sicilian. Sometimes you gotta let that motor run out of gas. But she is like I just like the the sun sets on her. It's like I can't believe. Every day I can't, I can't believe I'm married to you. It's like, thanks for saying yes, thanks for asking. I'm like you could have done so much better. I don't know what you saw, but I'm glad you did. But all of that is yeah.
Speaker 3:So back to these guys, eight which ran and finished super Spartan, do you want to do it? You want to try to do it? I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I'll try to do it. So it's like three months out and these guys are uh, breaking my balls constant every day. Hey, old man, hey, old man, are you, can you still do a push-up? Like, okay, challenge accepted, like any other test in life, gotta know what the Got to know how to questions are asked.
Speaker 3:So I researched a super Spartan. I knew every obstacle, the penalty for every obstacle. You, you, you couldn't do the obstacle, you don't want to do the obstacle 30 burpees with a, with a proctor in front of you. Oh, you don't want to do the burpees, you can't do them. They ripped the the thing off your chest and, you know, go back to the parking lot. Good, so I'm training at night for this thing and I'm like they're like, oh man, just try to finish it, like your goal. Your goal, we're going to try to be competitive, but your goal is just try to finish, good, okay, and these are like, these are like in shape guys, and there's like 10 or 11 of them that are going to do this. All youngsters, all in their twenties. Uh, primal life.
Speaker 3:We get to the super Spartan game day. It's at a uh ski resort in Northern New Jersey, I think copper mountain, stone mountain, some kind of crazy mountain obstacle one. A sprint up the double diamond uh ski hill. That's how it started. I knew it. I'm looking at these people trying to run it and they are gassed. They Then I've been halfway up. I'm like I ran till you couldn't and then short, short, stride steps. I was like a Pac-Man going up this, this hill, and the motocross mentality, you know, going to break me. Or I'm going to break the bike or I'm going to win the race.
Speaker 3:And the first. So the first obstacle top of the hill you got to walk over, like 50 telephone poles just sticking out of the ground fall off 30 burpees. I fall off like halfway through burpee. Thought I'm like, oh, but I was a burpee machine Cause I knew that that was the price to be paid. So I do that. And all the guys, the old man just tried to keep up. I don't even see him anymore. I'm like how far behind could I possibly be? I don't even see these guys. I don't know what happened to them. They're like bullets out of a gun.
Speaker 3:Then the lake, the swim. You got to do this long swim. Then you got to go under boats and then you got to get yourself up on a dock. Like you had to know how to do muscle ups to get on top of this dock. Oh, couldn't do it. Want to go around the dock 30 burpees. So I'm doing this whole thing.
Speaker 3:And I get to the finish line where you have to fight these Spartan dressed up steroid freaks with pugil sticks and then run through fire and crazy, um, I picked the biggest guy and I ran right towards him like non-stop running. I'm screaming. Everybody's trying to run around these guys. I'm like big guy, you and me, and he's I think he said this guy's out of his mind. You know. A few hits and boom, I'm done, get my little banana. And I'm looking around. I don't see anybody. I'm like, oh, they got to be at the tent. They're on their fifth beer right now and I'm going to get abused.
Speaker 3:I go, I find all the family members. I'm like where's everybody? They're like dude, you're family members. I'm like where's everybody? They're like dude, you're the first. It's like we haven't seen anybody, you're it. And it was an hour before the next ATF agent came over the line. Mr, just try to finish it. Old man, he was in a medical tent. He stroked out. Well, I had a lot of capital after that. So the older bosses than me, they're like to these youngsters great, great job. You really put Emmitsberger into the dirt. You put him in his place. I'm like fuckers.
Speaker 1:Eric, you know you bring up a hell of a point. That whole story is that consistency. Consistency isn't just about you know, get a come getting up in the morning and working out all the other stuff. It's it's just being steady on your feet, it's understanding what you're you just being steady on your feet, it's understanding what you're. You know what you can do in preparing for it.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's really consistency, but the thing is like, you know, when we first started doing these races and believe me, I, I, I used to when I was younger and I used to be like, you know, young Jason pickle, I would do like half marathons and stuff like that, but that's when I was in my twentiess, but I haven't run in like 10 years and we first started doing these things I'm like, oh man, I just want to, I just want to not stop. My only goal is to not stop and not walk. I don't care how fast or how slow I'm going, I do not want to walk. So you're not going to find me walking unless, hey, you know what you probably will. Now that I said that. But when my daughter my daughter wasn't, I mean she did track and soccer and and everything. But she never did a 5k before. So we got out there.
Speaker 1:She's running it and she's doing really good and she's like I said, and every time we go to these races she looks around and she sees these people that are look super fit. They're I mean, they look, they dressed, you know they got all the gear on and everything. And I tell her I'm like she's like I haven't seen those people at all. I'm like, well, you know what? I passed them about after mile one, because they're walking and they may look like they're incredible shape, but they don't. They have obviously weren't consistent in their training or they don't know what they're getting themselves into. And that comes into. The other thing really is know what you're getting yourself into and train for it. The first step is that first step. We're all well over 40. Don't sit on that damn couch anymore, you know. Don't sit on that damn couch anymore. Get up and take that first step and then building, and then know what you're getting yourself into and you're going to start doing crazy, amazing things that you never thought you could possibly do.
Speaker 2:I think you know with like Eric right, His mindset is is spot is so, spot on, it's not. I have to get up at four, 30 in the morning to go run, he gets to, and that that whole, just a small change of a mindset is. I can't believe I get to freaking, do this, uh. And you know when people are like, oh my god, I gotta get up, I gotta go in the office, those people are miserable non-stop and you can for the hour that you've heard eric talk.
Speaker 2:That guy is not miserable a moment of his fucking day and there's a reason why he's been successful and he can transition into and away from the amount of adrenaline and fun and things that that guy's done to now focus on the tasks at hand, what he's doing. I mean the guy has lost a lot of the fun stuff, if you will, of law enforcement and the things he's done and he still has the right mindset of you know he doesn't. Oh, I've got, I'm oh, I've just got to go cut some more wood and cut some more boards. No, he gets to and then he gets to do this and he gets to do this and he gets to do this. And that's the huge part, if people can get to that right mindset. Every transition because every right.
Speaker 2:I know you've got your book where people transitioning out of military and trying to get on, you know, in different federal agencies, the big part of that is they're going to be miserable if they don't have the right mindset coming in and out of that. Oh, I'm not. I'm no longer doing all these training exercises. I've lost all my friends and now I've got to go in an office in a cubicle. I mean, I've been in a cubicle hell, it sucks For me couldn't do it, I didn't have the right mindset, I wasn't ready for it, I wasn't ready yet. And now, like if you were to say, brent, you're not out buying dope and you can't go buy guns and like, go pick fights with meth heads, I'd be like, yeah, it sounds like a terrible day that I don't get to do that. No, I get to do a lot of other things. That is much more fulfilling. So sorry to cut you off on that.
Speaker 3:Hey, jason and Brent. So two quick little things about the mental part, and when I say mental I mean the drive and determination. It's never got to be about you. But I always said the measure of a good agent is not how hard they work on their cases, because I kind of expect you to work hard on them. How hard are you going to work on somebody else's case? That's the real measure of your commitment.
Speaker 3:So atf has, like every other job we've got, we've got manual orders that deal with every time you broke shoelace. You have an order on that. Uh, this is the procedure. Thank god it was computerized because when I first started it was in every office in binders. There was a dedicated bookcase to the orders, the manual. This is how you do this, this is how you do that and you can't deviate.
Speaker 3:So I was lucky. I had a lot of good successes in the career, went through the boss positions in the career, went through the boss positions. So I had a little bit of political capital because the big bosses knew I was crushing it for them and, more importantly, taking care of the people that I had. So here's two things that I did that anybody else would have been crucified for. But I had the capital and I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I did it anyway because my guys needed it. So one of them dealt with a.
Speaker 3:It was a long-term undercover operation that I was supervising and very violent group of people that the undercover was almost half living with, while there was a particular undercover that was going to be a pivotal moment. It involved a murder. It was one of those moments. And what do we need to do? We need to record those moments because nobody wants to believe you in court. Hey, this is what happened, really. Where's the tape? Where's the video? Where's the tape? Where's the video? Where's the hubble telescope? Uh, you know video. So this was like on like a wednesday that this thing came up and it was going to happen on a saturday.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, I knew I. I had an idea of wow, this thing is just what the doctor ordered for this undercover to be able to get everything memorialized. And I had used this thing before to great success. And there weren't a lot of them in ATF. We spent millions on good tech stuff, but I didn't have one of these things assigned to me. So I called up my technical operations guy hey, I need this thing. Oh yeah, we don't have one. Huh, another guy that's doing his job, he doesn't have one, great. So I call up the guy that runs the National Special Operations Technical Program. I'm like, hey, I need one of these things. They're all being used. Can't get it for you? I don't care what you have going on, everybody's got an important thing going on. Good, as Jocko Willink would say. Good, I had a relationship with the owner of Adaptive Digital Systems out in Newport Beach, california.
Speaker 3:That was the guy out in Newport Beach, california. That was the guy, his company, that was supplying the majority of these things, a lot of different things, that just cutting edge stuff, cutting edge and his name was Attila, believe it or not. This is now on a Thursday and I'm like Attilaila, I'm in a jam at we were using so much of his gear, and we would call him and say, hey, this is fantastic, but can you tweak it? Can you do this, can you do that? And he would go, oh, let me send you the greatest thing. I'll just send it to you, t and e in it, test and evaluate it, let me know what you think, hold on to it for a few months and then send it back. Let me know, good, we think, hold on to it for a few months and then send it back. Let me know, good, we did that, we did that, we did that. So finally, now I got a deal with attila because I'm like his uh, my group in brooklyn, like we're using the we're, we're using his stuff, and he's like I love it, I love it, this is great. Instant feedback. All the time.
Speaker 3:I call him up on like a, tell him I'm in a jam, I need this thing, even though this thing has been around for 20 years maybe not 20, but I almost. I can't say what this thing is, but it's a thing that could be put in front of a bad guy and he would come to an inaccurate conclusion of what this thing is, based on accurate information. Like, oh, I know what. That is Not really. Now, this thing costs $6,500. The way they built it for us. If you went into Best Buy, you'd spend a few hundred dollars and you'd have this thing. So I call him up. I'm like Attila, I'm at a jam. Buddy, I need the thing. He goes what do you need? What do you need? I'm like listen, I am going to, I'm going to FedEx you a cashier's check for $6,500 in an hour, in one hour. I need you to FedEx me this thing. Let him pass in the air. I need this thing by Saturday morning and you'll have your money. And he's like yeah, done, done, he goes, I'll have my thing on the way to you before you have your check on the way to me.
Speaker 3:Good, very specific thing in the orders about how we use money investigatively. Like I at that time I had like 35,000 in cash in my office in the safe pay informants buy guns, buy drugs, drugs, and if I run out of the 35 I get another 30. It was an unending supply of money for operational expenses, called agent cashier. What can you not use agent cashier for buying investigative equipment? It's a whole separate thing. You have to buy that on the government credit card and my limit was $3,000. So that was out the window and nobody's helping me. That should be adopting my sense of urgency. My own people are like give a shit what you think you need. Okay, okay, good, these guys don't know what I do. So uh, boom, this check goes out.
Speaker 3:My boss gets my monthly money report and he said, oh, he couldn't dial the phone. I'm sure he lost uh small, you know technique to. I'm sure he punched every single button on that phone to call me up. And he goes what did you do? And I'm like, hey, uh, I chose to not call you about this because I knew the administrative answer is no. I needed it, the undercover needed it and I was going to make it happen. And we made it happen and success.
Speaker 3:And he goes you violated every order, every operational part of the use of money. Do you know what you've done? This isn't like $10. It's like $6,500. You approved your own request, you took out your own money, you went to the bank, you got a check. You it's like internal affairs is going to look askance at this and I'm like I don't care. I said I can, my guy needed it. I went through the channels of the people that are supposed to help me. Uh, for whatever reason, I got no help. So I helped myself, I helped the undercover and that's taking care of your people. So I get a call right after that from the chief financial officer for ATF, the guy that runs the billion-dollar budget. He's calling me over $6,500.
Speaker 3:Paul Vanderplau was his name and he was an agent and he was a worker agent before he took over the money. And he goes, he goes. You have no idea the people that want to ice pick you over this. I'm like, whatever he goes, tell me what you did and tell me why you did it. I tell him the whole story and he goes. I get it, I get it. You did for your undercover what almost nobody would be willing to do. That he goes. I am sending you a check for $6,500. Put that money back in your little undercover money fund and this never happened and don't do it again. Okay, thank you.
Speaker 3:Moving on, nothing more to see here. And even my bosses are like because, uh, you like dodged a bullet on that. I'm like no, no, I didn't dodge a bullet. I made something needed to be done. I did it. I was like was like uh, clark Griswold sawing off the uh, new post. The guy saw something that needed to be done and I did it. Um, you know that was so. That was, that was funny. And a lot of people laugh when I tell them that nobody was laughing when they heard that story. Uh, another funny thing taking care of people. Uh, I'm running.
Speaker 3:When I was running the task force in new york city, we were doing an initiative in the 73 precinct, brownsville, brooklyn. Boarded on the 75 east new york, it was like the most violent piece of real estate in america. It was out of control, like it's been described, that clint eastwood would be scared to go through there. So we're doing this initiative with the housing police before everything merged into one big beautiful bill, nypd and um, they're, uh, hard-working guys, but they are policing 40 of the worst like projects you can imagine. And we're doing surveillances every day. We're doing CI. You know we're making things happen, but you got to make these tactical plans. You got to put. You know these buildings are like cities, like if you watch New Jack City, it's like these projects. There's 50,000 people living in one project. These guys got like 40 of them. So I'm like and they're working off the original 1940 like blueprints.
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay, I could do better here. I said so I go to the commanding officer, an inspector, and I said would it be helpful if you had photographs of every one of these projects that we could, you know, have? Oh, my God, that would be great. Like, ok, standby, listen, can you just have one of your planes, do some you know photographs, put together some CDs, some pictures. You know the cops, they don't have the money for this and they need it. Good, I don't think anything of it. And like, a month later he comes in the EA with a binder. Here's color photographs, here are DVDs with digital everything. Oh, here are some six foot by three foot photographs. Roll them out on the table, pin them to the wall. Oh, my God, you have no idea the thankful cops that are going to have these things Great.
Speaker 3:And you get a phone call from some boss in that car. He's like hey, did you happen to call the EA to to do a little air deal, air wolf? And I'm like, uh, why? We just got a bill for, uh, thirteen thousand dollars of jet fuel and hotels. And I'm like, uh, do you know that we have an order to use air assets? I'm'm like, yeah, I know that order, but you know, I had a buddy and I didn't think it would be. I knew it was going to be a big deal. And he goes we have a $13,000 bill. We got to pay. You didn't ask permission, you didn't write a memo, you didn't do this. You violated everything. And I'm like but I got the pictures, and the cops got the pictures and we get to take them back. And I'm like so if I asked you, would you have approved it? They go, probably not. And I'm like well, there you go, welcome to the federal government. Yeah, so my buddy in dea adopted the cops sense of urgency on this uh initiative.
Speaker 3:So then I find out, I'm like how do you spend 3500 out of a helicopter coming out of like kennedy airport? You know how do you do that. No, no, oh, we didn't use a helicopter, he goes. We used a um lear jet. That was in bogota, columbia. I flew, had it fly back to New York with a crew, four person crew, and they had like a CIA digital belly camera. So on one nice fine summer day there was a Learjet doing strafing runs over these houses in Brooklyn and those cops. To this day, to this day, those maps are still on the wall. We use these all the time. These are the best things ever. And I'm like what are you going to do? You're going to find somebody else that wants to work seven days a week in the stairs for us? I don't think so.
Speaker 1:And while we wrap it up, you guys, Eric, what is Sender Woodworking?
Speaker 2:And yeah, believe me.
Speaker 1:Eric, we could literally just hit record and have you talk for another six hours. Now you've met Eric. We're going to have to have another conversation because I didn't even get into the whole running and the kids and everything else like that. But I do want to bring up Send it Woodworking before we take off today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right on. So Send it a little play on words. If you look at the logo over my head, it's a saw blade with a rifle scope. You know, send it.
Speaker 3:I originally had dreams of building turn-of-the-century furniture Paris collections, 1800s, revolutionary War, big, big, big pieces. But you got to give the people what they want. And the people wanted epoxy river stuff, whiskey flight. In the morning working on 12 plaques for a cross-country race that brent's running at the end of the month with the kids um, everybody loves this. Uh, epoxy, uh creation stuff.
Speaker 3:And I have been just as busy as one guy can be pumping out whiskey flight boards, charcuterie boards, with the epoxy river flowing down. And then I figured out how to float stuff in the river. Like, oh, you want two layers of coffee beans. You want corks from your last 40 favorite dinners with your wife and your woman. I had an Oakland cop a few months ago, wanted an anniversary gift for his wife. Here's corks that we love, wine. I floated all these corks in a huge, like a two inch thick epoxy river. Um, I did a 3d carving of their wedding rings, put the date of their wedding I like. Um, he said. My wife was like, uh, I was a hero, at least for a few days. Um so all of that kind of stuff. It's like when I got my first tattoo and I'm covered somewhat, uh, the tattoo gal said I'll do it in red plaid, I can do anything, you just tell me I'll make it out, and that's how do we Eric?
Speaker 1:how do we find you too? That's actually one of the questions we should ask, fantastic.
Speaker 3:Instagram is, I think, the best fit for pumping my stuff out. It's the word send it S-E-N-D-I-T, followed by an underscore Didn't know what that was till I had to do that logo and then the word woodworking. So send it, underscore. Woodworking Brings you to my Instagram site. You can see a pretty good depth of things that I've done. The Highway Patrol sent the guy to the FBI National Academy last week and they auctioned stuff off to benefit charities. He wanted the Missouri Trooper Highway Patrol patch. Well, I figured out how to do a program to carve that, fill it in with epoxy and then put the FBI stuff and put the trooper uh whiskey glasses and set in it, sent that off. That was a big hit. So it's like if somebody says, oh, you know, I'd love to do the, can you do this? Can you personalize it with name titles, badge numbers, you name it. I can do it Like if you're a cop out there or an agent. It's like I want to get this guy something he's leaving. Reach out, we will make the magic.
Speaker 2:Gone are the days of the acrylic crappy plaque that says all that. You know, when you see his stuff, it's, it's. I mean well, he, me and him are still collaborating on my purple heart, uh thing, just because I haven't figured this stuff out. But I mean I'm like, hey, eric, what can we do this? He's like name it. You, I mean freaking name, and you know a guy like him, his attention to detail. I mean, if it needs to be a 13 and a quarter degree cut on something, it's at 13 and a quarter degree cut. It's not 13.2, not 13. If it's 13.3, throws it away, burns it and he makes another one.
Speaker 1:You know, what's funny is my ex-wife I almost said wife, but my ex-wife was a supervisor at the National Academy, so they had, and she was showing me some of the stuff they had and I'm pretty sure that know. I probably saw I cut a bit on some of your stuff because they do. You know what I do give kudos to all the, all the people that support the na with their um, with, with stuff like what you're doing. I mean, there's so much cool stuff there it's really neat. But, brent, you know what do you got going on in the future.
Speaker 2:I'm man, I'm, I'm trying to stay, uh, stay easy, right. So, uh, I took on this coaching gig uh, a little more than I had anticipated it being, and it's been pretty good. So, uh, I'm doing that and then I still travel around, right, uh, I do leadership talks and motivational talks and then, uh, uh, you know, wellness checks and, uh, I'm still working out the runestone ranch out there in California and helping those guys out, uh, building out their ranch for, uh, you know, first responders and military guys that are, you know, struggling with, uh, pts. So, uh, I'm I'm really just telling my story still and you know, helping those that are, you know, in a similar mindset. So, all employee wellness and, you know, trying to get away from you know, everybody wants to, you know, get in the I feel sorry for me stage and I think we've gone a little too far in that realm.
Speaker 2:I think, you know, people still just need to have some toughness going on. It sucks, you can get in a really bad spot and I, you know, I think people need to realize like it's okay to share your feelings and, and you know, be pissed off at your situation, but let's not dwell on it and keep, you know, keep it going, you gotta, you can do that, but it won't help. Uh, so, really, just that's, that's what I'm at. I'm working on book number two for those of you that read my first book just to kind of culminate on how the hell do you get out of the pit fully once you're in it, and uh, so still talking with some, uh, some people to do a docu-series on on my experiences and I think, uh, you know, if that comes out, you know, I think it'd be pretty good thing that people will find a entertaining.
Speaker 2:All right, if you listen to eric talk and his, you know stories and my stories, uh, you know I have some entertainment value, but I'm always a big fan of like you need to have a freaking lesson behind something. I hate, I hate, hate, hate. People just want to tell war stories, like let's find some reason behind it, because we can all tell war stories until our computers die, uh, and that's it. We're just going to want to one up each other with our war stories. So I think they're.
Speaker 1:You hit the nail on the head right there. It's like war stories are great, but that is like that's why I'm taking the direction of the protectors into a different area. Listen, I love hearing people's stories, I love hearing their backgrounds, I love hearing this and that about what they've done, but if I'm not learning anything and if the audience isn't learning anything, really, you're just having a bitch session with your friends, and today we learned a lot, and one thing I did learn from Eric out of everything, was that the right people for the right job and when it comes time to it, the right people are going to step up, and headquarters is always going to be headquarters, but there's always going to be someone out there who will do the right thing. Always, there's always someone that's going to do the right thing. It's just being ensuring that they end up on your team. But, gentlemen, I appreciate you coming on and I look forward to having you both back on soon.
Speaker 2:Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much.
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