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The Protectors® Podcast
Welcome to The Protectors® Podcast, where the valor meets the storyteller. Hosted by Jason Piccolo, a seasoned veteran and retired special agent, this series is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by the courage and tales of those who pledge to protect us. Beyond the front-line stories of bravery and dedication, this podcast goes a step further, weaving in the perspectives of those who bolster and narrate the protector's journey—featuring a remarkable lineup including New York Times Best Sellers and acclaimed Hollywood actors.
The Protectors® Podcast offers a diverse array of voices, from those who wear the uniform to the authors and entertainers who amplify their stories. It's a unique blend that highlights not only the raw realities faced by our protectors but also how their sacrifices inspire the narratives we cherish in literature and film. Each episode is a testament to the interconnected worlds of service and support, bringing listeners an unmatched depth of insight.
Dr. Jason Piccolo is a retired federal agent, former U.S. Army Infantry Captain (Iraq 2006), and author.
Past Guests Include:- Sean Patrick Flanery - Andrews & Wilson- Mark Greaney- Stephen Hunter- Remi Adeleke - Florent Groberg - Clint Emerson - Travis Mills
The Protectors® Podcast
522 | Doyle Glass | BOOK DISCUSSION | Author of SWIFT SWORD
In this episode, Doyle Glass shares his unique journey from Assistant District Attorney to sculptor and author, exploring the importance of preserving military history through story-telling. He reflects on the roles of prosecutors, the heroism of veterans, and the significance of remembering and honoring those who have served.
• Discusses the critical role of prosecutors and the legal system
• Emphasizes the importance of chain of custody in prosecution
• Shares personal reflections on the influence of the Alamo
• Highlights transition from sculpting to writing
• Explores challenges and approaches to interviewing veterans
• Discusses the camaraderie and faith of Marines in combat
• Urges listeners to remember and honor Vietnam veterans
• Advocates for recording veteran stories for future generations
• Highlights the lessons learned from military leadership and experiences
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
you have one right now. Hey, welcome to the protectors podcast. We are here with doyle glass. What a cool name, man. Oh, thanks appreciate it. Thank my parents for that well, you know, with with a background in sculpting it, just it. You know, if your whole career was about art and about sculpting, it would still be a really cool name oh, thanks, I appreciate it it's a good author name too.
Speaker 1:You know, before all that, though you were, you were in an ada man assistant district attorney. That's a talk about a gig man. People don't understand. When you're doing prosecutions and stuff, that's really like you could arrest people all day long, all day long. But unless you have a solid ADA, those people go right back on the street. Baddest, worst people in the world.
Speaker 2:Right, people go right back on the street. Baddest people, worst people in the world. Right, and I was, you know, worked on. I worked in mcclennan county district attorney's office here in texas and temple, and then I also lived in kentucky for a while and was an assistant commonwealth I'm sorry, an assistant attorney general there. And without the great case work by the officers in preparing the case, knowing how to present a case to a jury, knowing what's important, you know, it made our job just so much easier to have good folks on the ground that are having to respond to the tough situations and then to build the case, present the case to us so that we can prosecute it and get the bad guys off the street. So without the police officers and the detectives doing a great job, you know, our, our, our hands were, were tied. So I was, you know, really blessed to have a number of great officers who I worked with. That made my life easy. Well, relatively speaking. Burden of proof.
Speaker 1:Doyle, I tell people this detectives and special agents and stuff, I mean their life is writing. But a lot of the times, the patrol officers out there, the people the first encounters, the witnesses taking witness statements, gathering evidence, chain of custody leading up to the interviews and interrogations, and then the case presentations and the arrest and all that, but the little things. The little things matter so much when it comes to prosecutions and, like I said in the beginning, it's like you could. You could arrest the worst person in the world, but if you don't have a competent team all the way from the first responder, all the way up to the prosecutor, that person is not going to jail and they could offend again.
Speaker 2:No, exactly, and just a little thing. That's not a little thing. Chain of custody doing that correctly, that's not a little thing. Chain of custody doing that correctly, knowing that you can't have a break in the chain of custody at any time you do, and that key piece of evidence is gone, and even if you admit it, with a faulty chain of custody, the case is going to get reversed. So that sort of competence when you get a case and you see all right, that sort of competence when you get a case and you see, all right, the chain of custody and I'm using that as one example when you see that it's clear and there's no break and all is good, you just kind of breathe a sigh of relief that that's not going to become an issue.
Speaker 1:You brought up a great point that you admit to that. You admit to that. You admit to a lot of people. I'm like. You know the worst thing in the world is like when you're first, when you're first special agent, officer, agent or whatever is thinking about getting on the stand and you don't, or even testifying to grand jury. You don't want to be the bad, you don't want to be the bad person, you don't want to seem incompetent. But if you stick to the facts and stick to the truth, the truth will set you free. And it comes down to like look, if you didn't gather the evidence in its right way, if you broke the chain of custody, admit it. Never, ever, ever, lie under oath oh no, never, never.
Speaker 2:But you're exactly right. You, you have to and everyone makes mistakes and those, those things. But you're right, you tell what happened, because it will come back to haunt you if you don't.
Speaker 2:And you know that's what has to be done. Anyway, we all. The truth will set you free. You said it right there. Tell the truth, reasonable doubt. Just put the bad guy away. Keeping the bad guys away, that was a different struggle. Let's put the bad guy away. Keeping the bad guys away, that was a different struggle. You know, I prosecuted in Texas over 20 years ago and if you got a 12 year sentence, for example, you spent about 10 months in jail. That's a non aggravated offense. Now that may have changed now because I'm I'm not in the prosecution game, that I haven't been in a long time, but that was pretty frustrating. When a jury thinks that someone's going away for quote 12 years, in reality it's.
Speaker 1:You know depending on the situation, it could be a year maybe.
Speaker 2:So that's frustrating, but you know you got. You have to keep on keeping on.
Speaker 1:Now you were in Temple right. Is that Temple by Fort Hood?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, were you already there? What years?
Speaker 2:Well, we're talking, let's see 80s, 90s. Late 90s, early 2000s, I moved from Texas to Kentucky in about 2004. It's all kind of no, I'm sorry, that's not right. I moved to from Kentucky to Texas in 1997. So there you go.
Speaker 1:It was a long time ago, but yeah, it was Fort Hood back then Killeen, and we worked with a lot of military, yeah, officers and a lot of cases yeah, I was there in 95 and I remember like and I was, because I the first thing I'm thinking about is like some of the guys in my unit got popped for armed robbery back in 95, 95, 96 time frame and I'm like you might dealing with, you're like you're dealing with a whole bunch of different things. You're not just dealing with everyday civilians, you're dealing with, like, like the military element too. So like, yeah, man, temple was, temple was a lot a different, different area than people think.
Speaker 2:A different area and from our point of view I was with the Bell County DA's office. The majority of cases that would come in we would consult with the JAG attorney and most of the time we said, take care of your own, and we'd send them right back to the military and we would never see the cases again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because imagine it's a lot easier for them to do any type of prosecution under UCMJ than you guys could ever do. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And do real time too, when you're looking at time too, when you're looking at 12 years, you're looking at 12 years yeah, exactly, yeah, go wherever, yeah it.
Speaker 2:That was. That was always the argument was got a bad person here, did something bad. Where are they going to get the most time? And usually that was always with the military.
Speaker 1:You know you grew up in Texas. I love Texas and you said the Alamo was a really big influence on you, kind of jumping into this next phase of your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Even back as a kid though. I mean back when, oh I don't know, say I was 10, say this is early 70s, 1972 or 3, you go to the alamo and if you walk, in and there was a plaque in front of the door, which may or may not even be there anymore. I haven't gone, I think. I don't think it is. But it would say speak softly.
Speaker 2:Heroes died here for you something to that effect, and it was just an awe-inspiring place. You would go in and there was a plaque that had Travis's letter you know his victory or death. I will die with honor letter that I used to have memorized. I could probably spiel it off to you now if I thought about it, but that was just as a kid. That was just very awe-inspiring to me that these heroes existed so that I could be free and have the life that I lived. And you know, and at the.
Speaker 2:Alamo and Battle of Thermopylae. Those types of battles great, greatly outnumbered, and the guys didn't live. So it was. It was an love of history, early love of Texas history, but more importantly, an early admiration and love for heroic history and ordinary people doing extraordinary things.
Speaker 2:So that started as a kid and I had a love of history all the way going through college and even in the law career that's what I would read. So it was just natural for me to kind of, as the next phase of my life and career, to fall into something history related.
Speaker 1:Now were you always have some sort of like art bug in you, Like you were good at it.
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:Scoping's like it's solid man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it did, and you know I still do. I don't do it anymore, but as a kid I always drew and I always liked art. There was always that creative side. You know, writing is also creative, so there's a common element you wouldn't think of it, but something visual like sculpting and painting. There's a almost a similar urge when you write. It's just kind of channeled differently.
Speaker 2:So with the medal of honor memorials in the mid-2000s, you know, when I sculpted both of those, I was enamored by the stories. First was the kentucky medal of honor memorial. John squires, 18 year old young man from louisville, kentucky, was killed at anzio. But basically as this like I said, 18 year old, took out an entire german company in italy and spackastassi creek. There's a. I have a great kind of written history of what that guy did. And then when I came back, well, also being from Texas, I wanted to do a Texas Medal of Honor Memorial. So George O'Brien from my hometown of Midland fought in the Korean War. He was a Marine and he led a charge against Chinese at the hook in Korea. Just incredible stories and you can. There is actually a video interview of O'Brien online. That's very moving. I think it's the Medal of Honor Memorial whatever that website is where they catalog that he's since passed away.
Speaker 2:So I just love those stories and the art bug was always there and I enjoyed it. But then I kind of realized you know, I can't sculpt every great story that's out there and when you talk about something like the Alamo or the great battles of history, there are a lot of people involved. So I naturally fell into writing as kind of a consequence of the art and the sculpting bit, and realized that I enjoy telling the stories more, even more than the sculpting, the art part, which I definitely enjoyed. But you know, you have to make choices in life when you close one door and other opens. So I said OK, let's focus on the stories. And that led me to vietnam.
Speaker 2:I grew up during the vietnam war. I was too young to serve, but I remember it and I remember how those guys were treated when they came home, how it was a war that everyone wanted to forget. But these were the sons and, you know, nurses, the daughters of our greatest generation who we celebrated strongly, as we should Band of Brothers Saving Private Ryan in the late 90s when those guys were passing away. So, being someone who grew up hearing about the Vietnam War and having the movies are platoon and all of those that have kind of a political bent. I wanted to do a story that just told the veteran story In their words, what they saw, what they did not. Me I wasn't there. So long story short.
Speaker 2:I wrote two books Lions of Medina, which chronicles Marines from boot camp to an operation in the Highland National Forest of South Vietnam, october of 1967. And then my second book, which is in its second edition now, swift Sword, which chronicles basically a 24-hour period of firefight, a battle of Marines in September of 1967 in the Quezon Valley of Vietnam. And in both cases, both stories it's almost completely all oral history, meaning I spent several years interviewing these guys, recording their interviews, transcribing them. I'd say half of those guys are gone now.
Speaker 2:A lot of the guys have passed away from cancer, likely caused by agent orange. You know they would drop that defoliant to these guys. We just walk patrols just through it every day and, and there's some they're they're dying of cancer. Basically a lot of them. So it was, it's been really fulfilling for me to knowing that a lot of the stories are now gone to get it down and get it right and get it to where it's preserved for future generations and told in their words what they experienced. Not a Hollywood director, not some you know armchair warrior or anything like that, but let them tell the story. So I'm pretty proud of it.
Speaker 1:When you talk about like 17, 18 year old kids, cause I'm thinking back to the world war two still and I just had an interview where we're talking about like my son is 16 and a half now and I kind of think and I'm like man, a lot of people are lying to get into world war two, a lot of kids, you know, 16, 17 years old old and then to think about the bravery not the bravery first to sign up and go right, but the brave, the stories of brave kids, essentially kids who are now men and in war in combat, like it just amazes me, the, the spirit, the human spirit of like being in such a horrific yet like just adrenaline-fueled, just combat man.
Speaker 1:Just I think about these kids and it's just wow. And then it pushes me on to Vietnam and like me I grew up in. You know I was born in the 70s but the 80s were all about the Vietnam, the platoons, the Hamburger Hill movies. Later on the books, a lot of tons of books about Lerps, long range recon, not many books about just regular infantry straight infantry.
Speaker 1:And a lot of times when you get books, you're getting one perspective, like we Were Soldiers Once and have colonel hackworth's books and stuff like that. But I love the books where you get the perspective of other people. Now, when you're when you're building out these books and you're when you're like I'm gonna, here's the, here's the battle, it was great. But how do you track down and how do you interview all these people?
Speaker 2:I'll tell you it's a challenge. It's similar to building a three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle without the pieces, meaning you got to find the pieces and you have to find the pieces that fit because some don't. And the only way you know that is you just start talking to the guys. And that goes from Lieutenant Colonel Murray. He was a Lieutenant Colonel when he retired. He was a Lieutenant in charge of a company of Marines on September 4th 1967. And one thing stuck in my mind about him is that when I first told him what I wanted to do, he said you need to use as your example Eugene Sledge's memoir of World War II with the old breed. And if you have never read that book, it is sobering. It is not easy to read.
Speaker 2:Sledge was a Marine veteran of Tarawa Peleliu, from combat, from combat, and he would write something down and put it in his tunic and if he survived, he was going to write a memoir and he did. It's very raw, it's real. Murray told me you need to write a book. If you're going to do this, you need to write a book like this, because this is ugly stuff, it's hard stuff, it's not fun. You need to. This is what it was like. So, with that in in mind, I interviewed all the guys and they were they were great, to trust me. It took a long time back and forth to piece this battle together because in combat that I learned you know it could be just the two feet in front of you and by your side if you're holding a perimeter, so you don't know what's going on behind you or to your left or your right. You know what's in your perimeter right here, which you can see. So putting it all together was a lot of fun, but it was a lot of work. Other was a lot of fun, but it was a lot of work, and I originally published the book in 2014.
Speaker 2:At that time, I was married and my wife had breast cancer and I had a small child. She eventually passed away. The reason I'm saying that is that I was distracted from the story of Swift Sword with my own struggles in life. When I went back to it in 2023, I said this story is not finished. It's incomplete.
Speaker 2:What I wrote and originally published is fine. It's not complete. What is missing? What was missing are the voices of the men themselves, which you just said Perspective from many of the different guys that were in the battle. So I went back to all of the old interviews and found the key quotes and basically integrated them into my prior text and the whole thing just came alive, because then it was them telling their story. All I'm doing is kind of just organizing it and then it just it became just a great thing, because it's that similar to when you see band of brothers, the interviews of those veterans in the beginning, those guys have all passed away, it's like that, and these guys are saying this is what, what happened, this is what I felt, and you hear it from um, from them. So I'm I'm pretty proud of it.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, when you interview people and it's same thing when you do podcasts, but a little bit different but like so when you're, you have the background as an ADA, so you know how to build rapport. You know how to elicit confessions from people. So when you're to build rapport, you know how to elicit confessions from people. So when you're, when you come up with your list of people who you want to talk to, you draft out some notes and stuff like that you want to talk to. But how do you, how do you? This is some of the the worst days of their lives. So how do you get into that mode where, like, okay, I'm going to try to el list a lot of information on some of the some of the worst days of their lives?
Speaker 2:Well, you first have to get their trust and you'll. Usually you would start with the officers that saw the combat, lieutenant Colonel Murray Again, I bring him up because he kind of rallied the troops, so speak, meaning he talked to me, he vetted me, felt that like I could be trusted, so he would say, all right, this guy's gonna write a book, he wants to do it right, he wants to get our story. Who wants to help him out? You know, let for our, the guys that didn't come home, let's get the story complete and finished the best way. So then, so he would do a call to action and a lot of guys jump, you know, said, yeah, I'll help other ones. I can't do that man, I can't talk about it. I mean ptsd, just the horrors of war, and in those situations I understand I mean I don't understand because I never saw that, but I certainly respect and the horrors you've seen you don't want to visit. So a lot of several guys didn't talk to, and that's perfectly fine.
Speaker 2:Then you would then start, almost like I said, the Marine organization, you know the company commander, the platoon commander, start with them and then kind of go down the organizational structure to piece things together and then kind of work your way back up and to build it if that makes sense. An organizational standpoint that's the main thing is just where was first platoon, where was second platoon, where was third? Where's the command creator? Who's in charge, what's going on? So I would start with the company commander and work down and then kind of work back up and then put everything together. And as a prosecutor, one of the things that you learn very quickly is if everyone is telling their witness, they're witnessing an event, and if you've got two or three people that say the exact same thing, you know they're lying no one, no one, no one witnesses the same event the same way.
Speaker 2:They see different things. They see things that others don't see and they see it in a different way. So there was some conflict on did this happen or did not, did that, did that happen or it didn't happen? And to me that was wonderful because I knew it was all so true and real and you know, just an incredible true story.
Speaker 1:What hit you the most, like when you were talking to all these people, like the soldiers, I mean the marines. What was the one of the most poignant stories that you heard?
Speaker 2:well, there were so many um, as far as things that hit me, the um, the love and camaraderie that these guys had for their brother Marines next to them on the perimeter. I mean these guys fought for their brother Marines. You know those guys were going to save their. You know, if you're going to save my life, jason, I'm going to save yours. And that brotherhood I witnessed when I went back to Vietnam in 2009 with a lot of these veterans. We visited the knoll where this battle occurred and I saw those those guys then in their 60s, and that brotherhood between them was awe inspiring to watch. Faith was huge. A lot of these guys, the connection with God and their faith, the old adage there are no atheists and foxholes, sort of thing. That was incredible. As far as specific heroism or incidences, there's so many.
Speaker 2:Father Capodano, the Catholic priest, who was a stowaway on the chopper when these guys went out. Mike 3-5 was a quick reaction force. It was called a bald eagle company. Another company got into trouble. They were being ambushed by overwhelming North Vietnamese, so my company was called out to provide reinforcement for that company and Father Capodano was ordered. He was ordered to stay at battalion in the rear with the gear and he didn't. He said I'm just going to disobey that order. On the chopper with the Marines, when the company was ambushed on the Knoll by an overwhelming force of North Vietnamese At least three to one the odds could have been even greater, closer to five to one Father Capodano was out administering first aid, helping the corpsman, administering last rites, oblivious to the machine gun and mortar fire around him, and he himself was killed, going to the aid of a corpsman who was mortally wounded. So for that he earned the medal of honor. That's incredible. Another medal of honor recipient on the same day was Larry Peters, who was a veteran of 20. I mean, this guy's a veteran and he's 20 years old. I mean, on his second tour of duty. He's a salt. You know, I'm 63. I'm a veteran because, just because I'm old, this guy was the real deal.
Speaker 2:He was ordered to take a squad, when the ambush was sprung, to envelop a tree line to try to take pressure off the company so that they could form a defensive perimeter, as he took roughly 12 to 16 men to envelop this tree line. The tree line stood up because there were North Vietnamese soldiers that were so well camouflaged that you couldn't even see him on a bright sunny day. These were veteran NVA, very experienced, battle-hardened troops. Sergeant Peters saw that and one of the hardest maneuvers is a tactical retreat under fire. Normally if these men from mortar fire, pointing out positions of the NVA with his machine gun, fire and he leads them calm I want I use the word calmly, um, that's not the correct word in order in control back up the hill to enclose that perimeter. In the process, he himself was shot and killed when he was standing with that machine gun firing to show where those NVA were so that the other men could fire back and hold them off. And this is all going on, with a lot of men having an M16 that would jam and after one or two rounds they'd have to get a cleaning rod out and ram it down the barrel, come almost like a Revolutionary War musket and try to fire. So a lot of odds were against these guys. Those are just two examples. I hate to single anyone out because there's so much heroism here.
Speaker 2:Lieutenant Colonel I call him a colonel. He was a lieutenant in charge of a company, normally a captain's in charge of a company, but because he was one of the few guys that had combat experience wisely, the powers that be made him and put him in charge of Mike 35. His cool leadership under fire coordinating air support, coordinating mortar fire, controlling the companies and making sure the perimeter stays intact All of this going on in the midst of being overrun by three to four to one odds that leadership under that fire he earned the Navy Cross for that was. It's justinspiring that he was able to keep such a cool head and to juggle so many pieces At one point his platoon commanders and the platoon commanders. One of the faults in Vietnam is that you would graduate from the basic school in the United States and you're 21, 22. You're sent to to Vietnam and you're in charge of a platoon in combat. Well, the life expectancy of a first lieutenant was, in the second, not very high, but you don't have any experience. So his platoon commanders were all fresh from the United States, doing their best, their damnedest, but they had never seen combat and they had never trained as a company. A lot, of, a lot of things against the men.
Speaker 2:But murray said knock it off, give a report. This is what we're going to do and what I'm inspired by and I could talk about it forever is how, despite all these odds and these are just some of the things I'm talking about these men, men, were able to prevail, to keep their heads, to win really the battle. I mean tactically, in Vietnam we won almost every battle. Strategy is a different issue.
Speaker 2:But not only was the company preserved, but Operation Swift then lasted, I think, maybe a week or 10 days. They crippled the North Vietnamese in the Khe Sanh Valley and you have to remember big picture, the North Vietnam was planning the Tet Offensive for January of 1968. Well, one key element of the Tet Offensive that was not in place was their offensive in the Quezon Valley because of the Marine action beginning on September 4th basically crippled the North Vietnamese in the valley at that time. So I know I've given you a lot of information. It just it's very awe-inspiring to me when I have struggles in my life and my peaceful office here and my living in America in free will and I think, well, I can't do that, I'll just pick up this book and read about these guys. My life's pretty soft and good. I think I can handle it.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, the thing about these books is like there are a ton of books out there about vietnam, but a lot of them are about one person's perspective or specialized units in order to keep people's memories alive. And, like we, we know the band of brothers crew, we know we know the infantry people from back then. But, like vietnam, we need their stories. We need stories need to be told. I would love to have a book about firsthand perspectives from from Civil War, but nobody was recording, nobody was writing the books like that. But now, like with the Vietnam and even with the GWAT generation and Desert Storm and everything in between Granada, panama, somalia, we have certain stories. But the more stories that we could write and the more memory we can have for people out there, their memory stays alive, not just for the reader but for the families too.
Speaker 2:Oh, and for future generations. I mean, and you know I have, I have a son who's 28. Young men are struggling in our country now. I mean you know there are a lot there's you talked about earlier the World War Two, the 18 year olds, the 16 year olds and the 14, you know getting in. So I want to go serve these stories, act as inspiration and for generations, now for my son, grandson and then 100 years from now, from ancient rome were written down a thousand years from now. Hopefully somebody would pick up these stories and go, wow, this was this kind of fits, an ancient heroic tradition. That's. That's great, that you know the stoics, the heroes, what's really important in our culture. You know, know every day. So you know, if I could be a little bit of a part of that to tell these guys stories, that definitely makes my day. I think your mic's off.
Speaker 1:You know, hey, welcome to podcasting. You know everything's audio, but I'm looking forward to reading this one. I am. I love hearing firsthand perspectives, so the book is Swift Sword. Let me make sure I get the title now for everybody the True Story of the Marines of Mike 3-5 in Vietnam for September 1967 by Doyle Glass, 1,697 reviews. Wow, that's solid man, really solid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been a great, a great journey and with this book, what I want to, would love to see happen is our grandfather's uncles you've got a friend who served in Vietnam go up and thank them. You know they wear the hat that they're a veteran, and this, this goes for all veterans, but I'm speaking specifically about the Vietnam veterans because they're now in their 70s and we're losing them so and they weren't treated with any kind of you know, for the most part well when they came home.
Speaker 2:But thank them and give them a copy of the book if they, if they, want it.
Speaker 2:And give them a copy of the book if they, if they want it. They might and they might not, but it's. It's something to to say look, we honor what you guys did. This is representative of what all of you guys did the true story of the Vietnam veteran and the heroes of Vietnam, and let's get their legacy right. Let's give them the legacy of heroism that they earned and deserved and many you know the Vietnam wall died for and thank those guys and share their story. And you know, if you've got a loved one who was in Vietnam and they're willing to talk, record it record it who is in Vietnam and they're willing to talk.
Speaker 2:record it. Yeah, record it. And I think that Texas Tech University has a repository of Vietnam veteran interviews specifically for the Vietnam War. Not 100% sure about that, but you know. Contact that university and put it in their archive. But even more important for your family, for your kids and grandkids record what they did, because it's important and it's really important to know.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not just that. If you're even like the universities, the ROTC programs, the NCO courses, it's always great to have different perspectives for leadership lessons learned. So that's another avenue for these books as well.
Speaker 2:And you know, what's great about these books is it shows what not to do in a lot of ways, the individual replacement system which was, you know, you'd have a young guy fresh from the States boot camp, dropped into a combat company where all the veterans well, their buddy just got killed and you replaced them. They don't want anything to do with you, but you're going to do something to get us all killed. So that's very lonely. Luckily that's not done anymore. You know, units train together and fight together, and the same goes. I mentioned before the officers getting that experience.
Speaker 2:But as a treatise for military leadership, what not to do? Taking a hill costing lives, only to move off that hill three or four days later and had the enemy take it back and then to have to go back two weeks later and take it again. You know that's not great for morale and it's also not great tactically or strategically. But this is the kind of thing that happened in Vietnam constantly Equipment, a faulty M-16. You know you better have your bureaucracy in order so that you don't cost lives because your equipment is no good.
Speaker 2:So there are many lessons to be learned by reading this book. I think that our military has done a whole lot because of Vietnam to improve, but there's always room for improvement in all our lives. But, yeah, you bring up a great point. And, what's even better, what does leadership look like when really it's life or death? Yeah, and that applies to our everyday life. You know, if you've got a situation in our family or at work or anywhere, what? How did lieutenant murray handle that leadership situation? How did serge Murray handle that leadership situation? How did Sergeant Sullivan in the front crater handle his leadership situation? You go, okay, I'm going to use those guys as an example because they did it right. So if they could do it, I think I could do it too, or at least I can try to come close. Maybe not make it all the way, but try to come close.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate it. I'm glad for you to come on too. I want everybody to take a look at this book. Swift Sword Doyle welcome. Thanks, man.
Speaker 2:Oh man, jason, it's been awesome. I appreciate what you do and it's been a real honor to be here. I mean I'm glad you're interested, your, your listeners. It's something that we don't hear about or talk about in our culture and just to have you out there kind of spreading the word is pretty inspiring. So I appreciate what you do and thanks and thank you for having me thanks, I appreciate it.
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