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The Protectors® Podcast
Welcome to The Protectors® Podcast, where the valor meets the storyteller. Hosted by Jason Piccolo, a seasoned veteran and retired special agent, this series is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by the courage and tales of those who pledge to protect us. Beyond the front-line stories of bravery and dedication, this podcast goes a step further, weaving in the perspectives of those who bolster and narrate the protector's journey—featuring a remarkable lineup including New York Times Best Sellers and acclaimed Hollywood actors.
The Protectors® Podcast offers a diverse array of voices, from those who wear the uniform to the authors and entertainers who amplify their stories. It's a unique blend that highlights not only the raw realities faced by our protectors but also how their sacrifices inspire the narratives we cherish in literature and film. Each episode is a testament to the interconnected worlds of service and support, bringing listeners an unmatched depth of insight.
Dr. Jason Piccolo is a retired federal agent, former U.S. Army Infantry Captain (Iraq 2006), and author.
Past Guests Include:- Sean Patrick Flanery - Andrews & Wilson- Mark Greaney- Stephen Hunter- Remi Adeleke - Florent Groberg - Clint Emerson - Travis Mills
The Protectors® Podcast
521 | Callie Farill & Sarah Paskey
How can female firearms instructors navigate the challenges of social media critics while excelling in their roles? Join me as Sarah Paskey and Callie Farill share their experiences in overcoming these hurdles, emphasizing the power of self-confidence and the validation that comes from students rather than external voices. We explore the practical advantages of using optics in firearms training and self-defense, debunking myths and highlighting how these tools enhance accuracy and preparedness, particularly in high-stakes scenarios.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
Hey, welcome back to the protectors. Excellent guests today, excellent guests. I think both of you guys been on the show once, twice. I know Kelly's been on a bunch of times, sarah's been on, but hey, welcome to the show. I've got Sarah Paskey here and Callie Farrell. We're going to be talking about female firearms instructors and the industry and all sorts of stuff like that, but that's such a hot topic any time nowadays and it's been blowing up IG. We know that Some X or some current or some former or whatever quote-unquote instructor will get on here and say women have no place in firearms, they have no place in the field. Now we've had one of that big-time influencer, mr 75 Hard himself, say that women shouldn't be in law enforcement. Who is that? Overall, who's the 75 Hard himself say that women shouldn't be in law enforcement? But overall, who's the 75 Hard guy?
Speaker 2:This is how far disconnected I am with some of the politicians, and what they're saying.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing. Let's talk about social media for a second. Here you have the vet bros. You have all these people with their, with their large audiences and to them some of them have a hundred thousand followers, 20,000 followers, 50,000 followers, but we have 40 billion firearms in the U? S. We have 80 million gun owners, probably who knows?
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know stats and facts about that, but I'd love to, but the thing is we have so many gun owners, probably who knows? I mean, I don't know stats and facts about that, but I'd love to, but the thing is we have so many gun owners, we have so many people who are in this, so many people love shooting, so many people that have probably put more rounds on range than all three of us combined over the 30, 40, 50 years. But you have these people that get these voices on social media and they talk into these echo chambers, but if you really look at their social metrics, they don't have a large following overall. They have a large voice within that echo chamber. So I hey, that was my opening spiel.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the show, you too thanks yeah, so going for having going back to, um, what you were saying, absolutely Always, thank you. The people like that tend to be in echo chambers, right? So like attracts, like. So all the people who are following him are going to think just like him, and if you look at their following, it's a third of what you actually think it's going to be. So, and the other thing, too, is something I try, I've been trying to adopt for the last couple of years If these guys don't sign my paycheck, they don't deserve any bandwidth.
Speaker 2:As far as, like, what I think about them thinking about me, I just don't care. It's like. I've proven myself enough I'm. I don't need to prove myself to anybody. I know that my teaching methodologies are good. Um, I've been taught by some of the best instructors in the world and I are good. I've been taught by some of the best instructors in the world and I my students fucking love me. Like, if you're student, like my students love me. I hear all the time like they love how I teach and how I explain things to them and how I make them feel and that, right, there is all I need. I don't need anybody on the outside looking and trying to tell me that I'm not good enough to do something, which I hear it all the time, especially on YouTube. And yeah, it's, I come after you.
Speaker 3:They do dude it's so bad and I'm just like you probably never touched a gun in your life or like just go go back to your there.
Speaker 2:It's like the 60-year-old Marine who's done the. They're laying in the prone and they're shooting 500 yards with their iron sights, but you're hitting a freaking target. That's like five feet wide. It's like dude. I don't need to make life harder on myself and I'm not going to make life harder on myself. Get an optic.
Speaker 1:You can't get an optic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had someone tell me the other day that I was cheating because I had an optic and I should run irons for USPSA matches and I was like I could, of course, but why not make my life a little easier?
Speaker 1:I started using iron sights in USPSA because I wanted to use a 1911 and I wanted. You know, I love my old 1911, old 45, even though it's not an old one, but it's a nice one. But the other thing too is everybody runs optics in me. My eyesight, I'm obviously wearing glasses here, you know it's okay, but I like the idea of me. I don't really get into optics until I'm past like five, seven yards anyway, and at that point I'm already focused in on my iron sights. But I tell you what I would gladly run optics for my everyday carry.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Gladly, because you never know what an active assailant is going to have and where they are and how far away they are. It's not always going to be someone coming up to you and trying to mug, and we know nowadays with active shooters and active assailants. Because I say assailants because this people are using anything and everything to kill other people, and that could be vehicles, it could be machetes, it could be knives, it could be anything. So that's why I like the idea of the optics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why? Why would you make life harder on yourself, Especially if your primary reason for owning a firearm is to be able to protect yourself and yourself and the people around you, your family, your friends. Right Like that is written into our law, that that is our right as individuals. That's a part of the law. If you're using iron sights I want everybody to think about this.
Speaker 2:When you use iron sights at distance, you cut your target in half with a pistol. If you have proper focus, if you're focusing on your target, your iron sights are going to be blurry. So you're basically just cutting your target in half. You have reduced what you can see at 20, 30, 40 yards. You have no field of view. You can't see what their hands are doing. If you put a red dot over that, you've now opened up that field of view and you're superimposing that dot over your target. You can now, if you're missing your target, you know past 20 yards. If you're missing, you can call your impacts and get your data. So if I'm missing over here, I can actually see that because I've lowered my pistol and I've lowered my hands and I've widened my field of view, and not only is it a safety thing, but it's also like it's so much easier. It's so much easier. It's like it's made for our eyeballs.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Weird.
Speaker 3:It lets you get the whole picture. Instead of just being, you know, site focused, you're your target focus now and you're able to react quicker, like the times that we've seen, like where I instruct. Like you know, our averages have gone up. They're so fast. You know you still have a few people who have run irons for years and they struggle with it. You know you still have a few people who have run irons for years and they struggle with it. But overall, I mean and we're taking shooters who have never touched a gun again and they are up there with, you know, some of the best shooters that we have, you know, just, and they don't have any. Obviously, they don't have any of the bad habits bringing over, but it's it's amazing to see how fast and how accurate they are with that red dot. And it's it's we always the students.
Speaker 3:We don't fight fair, right? So, like, you might be a jujitsu master, but if you have a baton and OC and they're coming at you with their fists, why potentially put yourself in a situation where you'll get injured? Save yourself for the next fight, right? So I feel like it's the same with the optic. Like, can I shoot with irons? Yeah, am I accurate? Yeah, but am I even more accurate with the dot? Yeah, I'm going to take that advantage all day, because no one in the field is going to fight fair you know.
Speaker 1:The thing about dots oh, let me just throw this out there real quick is that I am a little bit older, so I remember the 90s and I went in. I went in law enforcement in 2000, so the border patrol was transitioning into the 96D, the Beretta. Now just five, six years before I don't even know within 10 years before that, they were rolling with a six-shot revolver. There was such hesitancy in law enforcement in the 1980s and the 1990s to get into semi-automatic pistols, pistols. You had everybody, every instructor and every quote-unquote professional in the world and expert coming out and saying listen, you can shoot just as fast with a six-shot speed loader than you can with a semi. So there was so much resistance to it. And then everybody goes to it, everybody goes to the semi-automatic. They the border patrol was going to the 96d because they didn't trust their people and back then too that the nypd was went to the glock. But they had these massive trigger pulls, massive, it was like pulling the you know jump start on a damn um like a 12 pound.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was huge yeah and then everybody started like when I went to my next agency, custom Special Agent, I was a Glock 19 there. But it's the same thing with red dots there's always hesitancy from the old school. And now the old school doesn't remember the revolvers. They don't remember, or they choose to forget, that controversy of going from a revolver to a semi, that controversy of going from a revolver to a semi. Now red dots are great. I love the idea of red dots, I love the idea of having iron sight backups in case the dot goes out or whatever.
Speaker 1:But I also want to talk about that actually yeah, let's talk about it so on my competition pistol and you know, the best thing in the world right now is if that gun would just go off. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we need a viral.
Speaker 1:We need a viral video right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, that would be fucking legit. All right, pistols, clear, right. So I don't have a rear sight on here, I have a front sight, but I should probably just shave this off. I have no intention on selling this. This is my pistol.
Speaker 2:That being said, my, my red dot is lockpited. It's direct milled to the frame so it's not going to go anywhere, right. And then the other thing too is you have this window that you can measure your target with. I know my dot is 2.5 MOA at 20 yards. So knowing that 2.5 is just all that tells me is it's two and a half inches at 20 yards, that dot. So when I put it on a target, I can kind of measure my target right, and I can get a distance that way.
Speaker 2:That takes practice, though. That takes reps. One of the things that I like to do is set up a little stage. We'll take our batteries out and we'll shoot with a dead dot and what you see is that if you've developed natural point of aim, if you just put that dot, that window, in your vision, and you grip your pistol and pull the trigger, you're going to get mostly get A's, and I've. I did a video. I should probably do another one, but I did a video where me and and jeff from sub second um went and we turned our dots off and ran a stage. We both did way better than we thought we were going to right. So if your dot dies, if the technology fails, having the those reps will help you get that window in your face and you'll be a lot more accurate than you actually think. I don't. Actually I don't have sights on either of my competition pistols only where there was reps.
Speaker 1:You have to shoot.
Speaker 3:You have to get out there and shoot, and you know dry fire for sure yeah, absolutely get used to your dry fire is more important than shooting some of the best shooters in the world will dry fire way more than they ever, you know, put rounds down range. So we try to get the students here. We have the Mantis system and we'll try to get them to dry fire in their rooms and do all the things and like pulling teeth, but they don't realize what. You know how much that helps.
Speaker 1:I tell you I had a my last gig. I did this just for the foundation. I wanted to learn how to be. I've been a firearms instructor for years for civilians, so I wanted to become a fed one. I've always helped out at the range and always done this, and that I became a Capitol Police FI. As a Capitol Police FI they issued me the red gun with the fully. I had a Gck 22, had the trigger that works just like it but, then.
Speaker 1:I wasn't a cert but it was like the regular um. It fully functioned as a glock. But you know, without the, without the, you know it was a red gun basically. But what I'm trying to say is that I got issued that but if an officer wanted to come and get that, they would have to get permission from a supervisor to get that signed out. Dry fire is great and if you have a weapon system that is the equivalent of what you carry every day, then he's federal. I mean state and locals don't have the money, but some do, but the feds should be issuing those things out to everybody. So at night you go home, you practice your draw, you practice your dry fire, and that goes with the civilians. Make these products available to the civilian market at a good price.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I have one.
Speaker 3:I have one for the SIG 320, because that's what we issue out to our students. But we issue them these red guns which they use throughout all their training, but then they have to give them back, you know, and they, I mean they treat them like a real firearm, even though they're, you know, they take out what is it? The firing pin or something out of them to make it so that they can't be shot. Um, but I mean they're, they're invaluable, like I use mine all the time at home and you know that's what we use on the ranges when we instruct. Kind of wish we would, you know, be able to take real pistols out there.
Speaker 2:But that blows my mind. That absolutely blows my mind.
Speaker 3:We hate it because it's like your, your lead instructor. They have their pistol, but they're in the tower giving commands. So you were always out there thinking like. Thinking like, okay, so if a student ever goes postal, like I'm gonna grab this student's gun and I'm gonna do this and and, but you have to prepare for that, because we're all sitting out there with these red guns that don't do anything with all these students, some of which who are you know, you see them shoot and sometimes you're like oh my gosh, um.
Speaker 3:So I mean, they're great, they're tool, but yeah, that does bother us all quite a bit.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you, coming from the Fed and you guys have all dealt with the Fed and military or whatever you have this cadre of instructors, who they're there forever and they're set in their ways.
Speaker 1:That's the reason I left the Capitol Police is because I was a contractor. My word was not valid, doesn't matter what my experience was. They were dead set on their course of instruction and they were like them go offline and shooting to the target, to the right, shooting to the target, and I'm like this is not kosher and the same thing with us. We had the red gun and it was just you can't be having a live firearm around the trainees and it's just. There's no reality. Yeah, I know there is no reality around this whole thing. And I'm not saying you can have a live firearm on trainees, but you can't just carry it. You can't just do a spot correction. You have to be like, hey, can I borrow your gun to show you how to actually shoot this damn thing? I mean, the training in law enforcement can use so much help from people who have experience and you know relevant experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Now I'll say here like I have been so impressed with our program, like it's the one thing that usually the students have nothing bad to say about. They might have things to say about certain instructors, but like the program that we've created, or they've created like the, the masters of our, our agency's, firearm program, like it's just phenomenal. It's teaching them to be faster, more accurate. It's building confidence too.
Speaker 3:Some students get lost a little bit because it is very fast paced and obviously we don't get enough time on the range, just like as a defensive tactics instructor, I always we don't get enough time on the mats, like there's just never enough time. So we always encourage them to do more training afterwards. But I will say the program currently where I work is like it's the best I've seen and I truly believe in it. So I feel like we're moving in the right direction and a lot of other places are like coming to us and like our, our section chiefs and being like hey, show us what you do. Um, so they actually have a program where they'll go out and train other agencies and police departments and and I love that part of it because we do have such a great, great program- you know Um, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:You know, that kind of brings up a good point to me. You know, as we were talking about the millions and millions and millions and millions of gunners, now what I've noticed over the past, even prior, like right around COVID, when people realized that they are are their own protector, that LEOs and they're, they're minutes, hours away. You are your own protector. So when I would go to these courses and I would look around at the audience and basic firearms, you would see everybody from the every spectrum dyed hair, left right, old people, young people everybody wants to know how to shoot that gun. Fear drives all Absolutely and that's one thing I like. That's one of the reasons I want to talk to you guys today, especially Callie is the new knew. A lot of women especially look at a firearm as a different type of tool. They're getting away. I mean, listen, maces has its place everywhere, but a knife, a baton, all that stuff, but a firearm is a definite multiplier.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, we're not going to bring a what is it? A knife to a gunfight. We're going to bring a gun to a gunfight. That's. That's the only way you win, the only way to have the upper hand. And there is.
Speaker 2:I wrote a book called the gun owner's guide to safety and accuracy. The key to success for new pistol owners, and the whole idea behind the book is to walk someone who maybe wants to get a gun or has a gun and walk them through the process of just general ownership right. I cover castle doctrine in there. I cover stand your ground law, reciprocity, what all that means you know. Storing your firearm it's actually not required, unless there's a child in the house to store your firearms, which a lot of people don't know. You can just have your gun out. Is that recommended? No, it's not. But however, you can, unless there's a kid. I have guns all over my house. Yeah, there's. They're just freaking, you know, once you have so many, you're like, let me just hide this in here. And that looks like a good spot. And anyways but so?
Speaker 2:but I also cover like how to hold it, how to find your site, drills for practicing that I cover. You know ammo. I break down ammo so you can understand how everything works together. So there isn't anything out there like that. Yeah, there are YouTube videos, but the information is so far spread out. I just grabbed all of it and put it together in like a little manual.
Speaker 2:That's going to be a really short book. Yay, thanks, sarah, it's going to be. It's a very short, short book there's going to be. I'm working on the YouTube videos right now. I've got to get some pictures with some of my girlfriends that way I can demonstrate like proper high ready. You know what I mean. Like I also explain in the book too. Like when you go to a shooting range, you only have one direction of fire if you're at an indoor shooting range. So don't get in the habit of only ever pointing your pistol down range, because this is a really bad training scar to have. So when you're at home, practice getting your pistol into your workspace, doing all your manipulation in your face. Breathing exercises how to lower stress just by taking some breathing exercises ever it's freaking. Everything's in there, but I've consolidated the information, so it's not overwhelming well you also have Patreon too, don't you?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I just launched my Patreon it's I'm building it. Mostly it's all public access right now. I do have some tiered options. I have a $5 general access. So whenever I do post a video, if you have the $5 one, you can get in there. And then I do a Q and a every other Wednesday at six for an hour and then, if you have any questions, I also have a Q&A chat for that so I can be prepared and get through more questions and whatnot. And then there's also a class. So I'm going to do a five week online introduction to pistol course that you can sign up for on the Patreon. It's $200. You're going to see that it's $286 because that is that $86 is the upcharge on Patreon. So nothing I can do about that.
Speaker 1:But you know, and I always love the resistance people give to like Patreons and all this, and I always tell people I'm like and, believe me, it's tough for me to ever charge for things because but then I it's different, because I like a book about me, I'm like, eh, I feel bad about charging, but I I wrote a book about hiring and stuff like that and I don't have a problem with any charge with that. But the thing is, people are buying your experience. They are buying the hundreds and hundreds of hours that you, callie, put into it to get to that point. And when you have this experience and when you have this continuous training module where you have to go and buy training or where you have to go put in your hours because people don't realize that hours equal money, so when you're talking about $5 to get training, that is really invaluable to support you, so you can go out and get more training to bring it back, you can go out and get more training to bring it back. So it's like a continuous cycle where, like, I guarantee you that money's going to come in and you're going to go. Okay, I need to do this. This is not in order to be more proficient at my job and your job is to teach firearms to people. That's your job. People are paying you for your job If they went to a range and you can and this is one thing I want to get into with you too is that when you go to a range and you hire a private instructor or you attend a class, are your instructors continuously improving themselves?
Speaker 1:Are they continuously learning? And I'm not saying you have to go and buy training, you have to go and attend. You know any, you know two, three week course, three day course, whatever but are you continuously developing yourself? Are you religiously watching videos on real shooting events? Are you continuously learning how to better improve yourself in order to treat people? And what we're finding and you know, sarah and I were talking about this offline and Callie, I know you recognize this as you get these people who are instructors guys and girls, but I'm going to say a 90% of it is going to be guys who get up there and their ego takes over. They're like look, in my past life I was an operator X Y Z. They're like look, in my past life I was an operator X Y Z and I've done this. I've done that 20 years ago, 15 years ago, five years ago, but they stopped learning.
Speaker 2:And then, all of a sudden, maybe they've only ever taught like uscca or nra or what name your company's instructor course and certification through them, the only information they have is old basic information and nothing.
Speaker 2:None of it's tactical like our how we react to situations now versus how we were taught to react. React to situations like five years ago is completely changed, right, like sarah, I don't know if you've ever taken one of those self-defense courses when we were younger. They were like never give them your back and then come to find out if you need to get away from somebody you have to give them your back and, freaking, turn around, run, give them your back, look where you're going and run. Like things have changed. But I've seen a lot of that in the 40 plus female instructors that aren't continuously going out and seeking education. Their information on, like drawing, how to draw from the holster, how to draw from concealment, trigger, press, sight, picture, stance presentation everything looks like a 1990s atf poster and god bless them, for you know they're getting out there, they're teaching women, they're getting women interested, but, holy fuck, like you're just creating more bad shooters it's important I feel like any
Speaker 3:sort of instructor. You know that we always there's this huge dei movement and we need more females, we need more this, we need more that. It's like we need the right people. I don't care what you look like, what's between your legs, you're male or female, we need the right people because I don't care what you look like, what's between your legs, you're male or female, we need the right people, cause there's the wrong males, there's the wrong females, right? So I feel with instructors, it's the same thing, like when you have to have the heart for it and you want to truly like.
Speaker 3:There was a, an instructor when I went through the firearms Academy for my agency and um or the firearms course and at the end of it, you know we're all excited, you know we're going to teach people how to shoot, you know, and he was like he. He had a talk with us and it hit home, cause he was like this is a calling. He was like you're not going out there and you know, for me it's different. I'm not doing like the, the women's intro, like you do, callie, where you know you're, you're taking a shooter, you know, to defend themselves. Well, I am doing that. I'm training someone to defend themselves, but in a law enforcement capacity, right. So, like, what he said to us was hey, you going out there and training them, now you are training them to survive the worst day of their life. You are going to be either the good thing or the bad thing that will will have them come home or have a knock on their family's door. It was like, do not take that lightly. Every time you go out there, don't have that ego. Don't think that you know everything, like I can learn something from someone who's been shooting for a year or just came to the academy and like, shows me something that just blows my mind, right.
Speaker 3:So that's why I think so many of these instructors you know they've, they've been and I experienced it myself because I'm young in my agency, even though I've been in law enforcement 15 years you know I'm 37 years old. I'm usually a decade younger than most of the instructors that are here and they look at me like, oh, you shouldn't be here yet. You just got here Cause you're a woman. Well, take a look at me like, oh, you shouldn't be here yet, you just got here because you're a woman. Well, take a look at the skill set that I'm bringing to the table, the way I can talk to other women that are on the range as trainees, you know, and get through to them in ways that you guys can't, because you haven't been through the same life experiences I have, right. So if you're the right type of woman and you want to learn and you're out there like I can work with that, right.
Speaker 3:But taking those egos out there and realizing that our job is to train them to live, and that is such a huge calling and so many people just use it to you know I'm an instructor, so listen to me. No, you need them to buy into what you're selling. Buy into this is going to save my life someday. So I need to put my heart and soul into it and not just treat it like it's nothing. You know, and I feel like that's a constant.
Speaker 3:You have to be willing to accept the fact that you're not always going to be right. You can learn from anybody and you have to take a step back and take your ego out of it. Like I could be the best shooter in the world, there's always going to be someone better than me that I can learn from and I have to be open to that, because if you stop learning as an instructor, you might as well turn in your instructor shirt certs, you know. Because we need to be constant learners and adapt to the new environments and and prepare these people for that day that they're going to need these skills to go home. That's why we're here, not because we're the best at everything, but because we should have that passion for that survival. You know we're teachers, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you're not just teachers. You know you brought up a great point selling it you have to be able to talk to people. This is, believe me, not everybody is geared towards actually having a casual conversation in stressful environments. Listen, some of these people and Callie, you know this more than probably Sarah because a lot of people they get into law enforcement because they know they may have to.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to say 98% of people get into law enforcement, understanding that that tool they are given they may have to use to take another life now callie, you were dealing with people who are picking up something that, to them, could have been the most taboo thing they've ever seen in their entire life, that if they even went into the same room as that gun that it would just go off it would just go off, oh yeah or they've had experiences with it. We, we're just not good, you know? Yeah, I have had.
Speaker 2:I have had students who have had negligent discharges and harmed like didn't kill family members, but harmed family members. So I had a lot of trauma that I had to work with with some of these clients. And then you know propaganda I have Canadian clients, I have Canadian clients right and they are, were super brainwashed on you know, firearms and how dangerous they are, and not yada, yada, yada, yada yada. And that you know, the first thing I say to him is like hey, man, are we going to start suing forks for making people fat? Or like is, are we going to sue the hand? Like you know, and see like they make that. They have that same reaction there where they just giggle and I'm like yeah, okay, ice is broken. I was like it's a tool. You know, the bullet is the car, the sights are the steering wheel, right, the trigger is your gas pedal. We just need to learn how to use it safely. That's it. And I work them through all that trauma and usually when we get to the range there's still a little bit of hand, like I've.
Speaker 2:I had one one lady come in and she it was really stressful for her to pull the trigger because she had been, she had had a gun pointed in her face and then aiming was too much for her. So what I did is I took her over to a berm. We were three feet away from the berm and I was like, look, I don't even want you to look down the sides, I just want you to get a good grip on that pistol and point it at the berm and pull the trigger. I need your nervous system to get over the feeling of this trauma that you're going through right now and I'm going to. We're going to make this really easy. We don't even have to aim, this is super safe. We're three feet away from the berm, the bullet is only going to go into the dirt.
Speaker 2:And like she's tearing and crying and she pulls the trigger. And then, you know, I see more tears come. But she's doing it and she pulls the trigger again and again and again and I'm like, good, keep working through it, work through it, work through it. And then she just unloads into the side of the berm and I take the pistol from her. We have this like big hug, and she's crying and thanking me, and it was a really beautiful event. And then we went right immediately, got her from that, got her calmed down and then now she can aim. So I just had to get her through the trauma, and sometimes you just got to send it off into the berm a couple of times.
Speaker 1:But, callie, this doesn't have to be like this long-term. It's not like you're going to counseling where you're going to talk for seven years and all of a sudden, one day you're going to pull the trigger. I love that story you just told right there, because the same you know my and I I listen, I love having female firearms instructors has nothing to do with sexuality, but the thing is they were so calm. The lady Jody who taught me the basic NRA firearms instructor course was so patient. My grouping went down years ago. I was like, oh wow, now I can actually be patient, trigger control this, and that I'm not just like, ah, but I did.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to say her name, but she was a host for a TV show. I went to where she was at and it was her first time shooting a gun. She was a prosecutor at one time, so she had a familiarization. But when I went to the range with her, I did the same thing. I'm like, look, we're just going to talk about it and I want you to just pull the trigger. You've got to break the ice, garrett, sarah, some of the people you deal with probably never poked up a gun in their life either, and all of a sudden, they're going to be in law enforcement. And then the reality kicks in. And that's the thing with both of you I'd like to talk about is that when you're dealing with people who have never picked up a firearm and they hit, the reality hits and they're like, oh shit, if I have to use this, I'm actually have to take a life. So let's hear about the different perspectives. You know, the LEO and the general public one.
Speaker 3:So I think for me, when you know we had a we had one girl recently who's coming through and you know she's like she would hesitate every time to pull the trigger and in you know, scenario-based training, and I'm like what is going on here, you know, and, and she's a good shooter, I've seen her on the range and then she comes into defensive tactics and just like, so the one day I'm like, hey, you're, you're hesitating every time you go to pull the trigger, you know, and she's like, well, yeah, I don't want to hurt anybody. And I was like, okay, I was like, so we're going to think about this from a different perspective, right, because you are not making the decision to hurt somebody. You know it is their actions, there is a cause and effect to everything we do in life and they are deciding to not listen to you, to not follow your commands, to potentially go out and harm somebody or you. So you're not making that decision to to hurt them and you're making the decision to preserve your life and the lives of others. And I said to her cause, I was like you, I was like do you have a family?
Speaker 3:Like what do you? What do you have back home? Right Cause you got to find your why for all this stuff. Why am I here? Why am I doing this? How am I going to motivate myself to to run towards the sound of gunfire when everybody's running away from it? Right, like, how do I find that dog in me that pushes me to go into those dangerous situations and and be able to handle it and thrive in it? Right, and I told her. I was like, think about it this way Like you're, you are an empath, you're kind, you're sweet're sweet, you're, you're a wonderful human and you don't want to hurt somebody else. But what happens? If you hesitate and they kill you, who's going to be knocking on your, your family's door telling them that you're not there? I was like, so don't think of it, as you're hurting somebody else. They're making that decision for you and all you're doing is saving your, the lives around you, and saving your family from that pain.
Speaker 3:You know, and and it got through to her, right Cause she was like oh and, and we always tell the students, you know, cause you have so many that command, command, command. Like, put it down, put it down, put it down, put it down. And it's like, at some point you have to abandon all hope, and that's what we tell them. Abandon all hope because they are making that decision. You can hope that they're going to put down that pistol, you can hope that they're going to put down that knife so you don't have to pull that trigger. But at the end of the day, I'm going to ask you, I'm going to tell you and then I'm going to make you.
Speaker 3:And that third option means that that round is going down range, because, because I'm going home to my family, right, like I am never going to, I never want to be the reason that my dad gets a knock at the door. You know, a cop, himself of 40 years in Chicago, gets that knock on the door. That, hey, your daughter hesitated, right, or she is not alive, because, whatever the case might be right, because she hoped that they would, you know, make a different decision. They made that decision and, unless you drop it quick, like it, it it's their decision that they're making and you are just making sure you're safe. So I think for me it's just like finding their why, finding their reason, and then trying to motivate them through that Cause. For everybody it's going to be something different, you know, um, so it's a little different for us, I think I I mean, but it really isn't for me, yeah, it's not different at all.
Speaker 2:I have to find their why. I have to find the reason they're there. Sometimes it's to get over trauma that they, you know, has been accidentally induced because their parents failed them. Sometimes propaganda trauma, sometimes it's hey, uh, things are sketchy. I need to probably protect myself because now there's a bunch of illegal immigrants and, you know, girls are getting raped for no freaking reason. Life is dangerous.
Speaker 3:No repercussions for committing crime.
Speaker 2:It's just isolating the why Hold on one second and then addressing that that and then addressing that.
Speaker 1:You know, when you're talking about all this stuff, it's like feedback. One thing about females is listen, you could be critical to each other, but you like feedback and one way or the other. You may hate it initially, but after a while you're like oh, but I tell you what, uh, men, when that ego jumps into it and some people, but I tell you what ego in this industry is the killer. It's a killer of. It kills communication. And when you're having new shooters come in, people who have maybe they shot in their life, you know they always had a gun around, they've taken basic courses, they want to take it to the next level, just a little bit more. But then the ego comes in and you'll have the instructors being like, okay, well, this kid, this guy, this girl, whatever they could do some shooting, but I'm better you always.
Speaker 1:That ego as an instructor should be out the door. It shouldn't be about look how cool I am, look at my fancy gear, look at my sub second draw, look at me. I could, you know, shoot with a mirror and hit a target 500 meters away with iron sights. Um, you know stupid shit. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:But the ego driven instructional base needs to be next in the firearm community, because we are getting such a massive influx of people who have never fired a gun before and if they have, they may be at a certain point. And when they get to that certain point and they want to push it up, don't stop them at that point. A lot of these people want continuous learning. They want to get to the point where they are shooting advanced. Maybe they want to get into competition or maybe they just want to get into defensive pistol shooting, advanced defense. So lose the ego. And I know you two have dealt with the ego, especially Sarah in law enforcement and Callie, you have definitely felt the in your industry, trying to make a living as an FI. So let's talk about the LEO one first. Here You're on, you're on a podium now. You got to tell us about this.
Speaker 3:You know it's. It's a struggle and I know that you know, no matter what, I've always gone through it, whether in the military contracting, you know it's. You're always looked at as as you got there because of what's between your legs you know. Like they don't ever look at, oh well, maybe she is a good shooter, you know. So, like the first time I I shot around some of the guys they're like oh, she can shoot. I'm like, yeah, like our, our firearms course to become an instructor is not easy. Like you'll have like seven failures day, one out of 24, just on the qualification, cause you go down there and our qualification is a hard but it's like a mind fuck Right. So you, you're always trying to prove yourself to certain people you know. And then you're a female, I'm younger, I'm newer to the agency I'm at currently, cause I came over from, you know, the secret service. I always tell people I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. So, in the grand scheme of things, in five years I would be retiring. But again, I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. So I, you know, military contracting, secret Service, and now I'm here and I've had an amazing career and I've gotten all this experience. You know, I grew up shooting. My dad, like I said, was a cop, um, so me and my brother were shooting with him, basically when we could walk Right. But you come into these circles where you're constantly, you know, being judged because I'm, you know, 37 years old, because I'm, you know, three and a half, almost four years into the current agency I'm in and I'm already here at the academy teaching Right, and I get it. A lot of people have waited a long time, but then they get those egos like, well, I had to wait X, y and Z to get here. Well, okay, I'm different and I think you know you have to do so much more to prove that you belong there, where it's like, hey, give everybody a chance. You know, like you could tell me that Callie is the worst shooter in the world and she's, you know, don't go to her. But I'm going to find out for myself how Callie is as a human, as an instructor, and I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt before you know being like, oh, you know she's not a good instructor. But you let those egos get into play and think, oh, this person shouldn't be here Cause I had to wait so long, or she's too young, or she's just here Cause she's a female and and you're, you're messing up your program actually because you're you're trying to push people out that could have such a an impact. Right, and thankfully here. You know I was given the chance to join the team and, you know, to be a part of the family here, and I still get pushback from people that are and they won't even ask and that's the worst part. They just assume I'm doing something wrong. Like had a girl break down on the range one day and I was instructing her and so everyone you know a few people at least were like oh well, patsy's just so mean, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, if you would have asked, you would have known that this girl failed.
Speaker 3:Another PE in a different section that I work in. I helped her through it. I, she, you know she was a veteran and I knew people who knew her and I knew this wasn't her right, she was getting in her head, she was overthinking. I'm also an overthinker, right, so I get it. So, and of course, I had that female thing where when I get so angry and frustrated, I start to cry. So I've had to work on that over the years. You know, biting my inner mouth and like just trying not to have that emotional reaction to something drives me nuts. I'm like why can't I just get angry and like, break things right? I cry. So you know I was helping her and these people took it as, oh well, pasky's mean. And you know she's just telling these students oh, you have to do it my way. And blah, blah, blah, and then making them cry and I'm like how about you find out the background to the story? How about you just, you know, assume, don't assume that I'm just like doing my own thing and be I'm the best instructor ever. No, I'm not.
Speaker 3:But you have to communicate with people and figure out, like, what they're doing, you know, and it's just that constant struggle of trying to prove, prove that you belong there. You know it's it's very frustrating, but you know you just have to kind of accept the fact that this is going to be my life. And, callie, you said my new mantra is if you're not feeding me, fucking me or paying me, I don't care. And it's hard because I care so much about what other people think of me and my reputation. But at the end of the day, I can't change your opinion of me and I can be the best human in the world, the best instructor, and give you the shirt off my back and you can still turn around and talk crap about me, right? So I'm trying. You know, 2024 and 2025, to adopt that. You know, if you're not doing those things for me, I shouldn't care what you think. It's hard, but you know it's just something I feel like I'm going to. You know, any woman in law enforcement will have to deal with.
Speaker 2:And the DEI movement doesn't make it any easier. No-transcript, try and diminish that feeling. Get rid of that feeling, because all you're doing is you're giving them the power, right? Yes, let your actions speak for themselves. We don't have to come into like as if you're a female going into the fire department or if you're a female going into law enforcement. You don't have to attack these careers with this like bro bravado you know what I mean Coming in as the big, bad female who can do all the things. Yes, we know I've met plenty of these women. A lot of them are firefighters and they're like the total bro girl and they have no woman side to them and no nurture side to them and they're so hard and they're so angry. We don't need that anymore. Who cares if they don't like these?
Speaker 2:Your supervisor doesn't sign your paycheck. Your fire chief does right, does your fire chief? Are you good? Are you good at your job? Right? Are you? Are you the type of female that's going to pull the woman card or are you just going to let your actions and your fitness and your lifestyle speak for itself? If those things are happening, you don't need to prove anything. You just need to live your life. That's it. Do the things that you want to do and all the other shit needs to go out the window. When I started doing that, I got way happier.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it does. It gives you a sense of freedom, you know, and, like you said, the fitness part, oh my God, that's huge. And Jason, you can probably attest to this because, like people, you know, once they get in their career they get out of shape. You know, and they like, and you've seen it like and you're looking at your peers, like what are you doing? Like because, especially here, like we are the first view of all of these trainees coming through, you know, and like I always want to set the example right, so I don't want my belly hanging over my pants with my gun belt. You know, I don't want to be what do we say?
Speaker 1:if you can't see your? Uh, if you can't see your shit or your feet? You can't see your feet yeah, if your belly's so big, if you can't see your penis, then there's an issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you might you got, but you have a problem. Yeah, yeah, you have a problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you have a problem. And so it's like and so, but then they'll make fun of you. Oh well, you're just working out and you go work out with the students and you cause I volunteer it. The way our academy works, like we have different sections. Well, I'm triple certed, so I have a defensive tactics, a firearms and a PT certification. So I do all three.
Speaker 3:I belong to one, but then I volunteer my time with the other ones whenever it fits into my schedule and they'll be like oh well, you're doing too much and you're doing this and I'm like it's good for the students to see you there doing PT with them and doing the same things you're asking them to do, cause we have so many instructors. You know, as a defensive tactics instructors, we do like a fight simulation drill for the students where we run them through this you know fighting thing to see where their limit is. Well, we also go through that as instructors in our, in our course. We go through several of them. We've been through it here at the academy and then we'll do like a mini one for like an in doc when we come in to teach. Well, I'm not going to do, I'm not going to ask the students to do something I can't still do Like. My job as an instructor is to set the example physically, mentally, emotionally, mechanically, right and so on. Demand performance on demand.
Speaker 3:Yes. So if I can't go and shoot what I'm asking my students to shoot, if I can't go and, do you know, 30 pushups in a minute, like I'm asking, I think our test is like 22. It's pretty bad, you know, but if I'm not doing what I'm asking them to do, then I don't feel like I should be here. And that we have so many instructors and it's usually the ones with the biggest egos where it's like bro, you can't tie your shoelaces without getting out of breath, what are you doing? Like, but you're still throwing on all the tactical gear and going out there. Like you know, I'm tactical Santa and it's like what are you doing? Set the damn example.
Speaker 3:Otherwise they're going to turn into you when, when they're your age, and that's not what we want. We're trying to change the mindset and the physical stuff into you. Know, hey, maintain this throughout your career because it can save your life. Right, we got a medic who will attest. I've never patched up a bullet wound, but I've dealt with like three heart attacks from from agents who were so overweight they couldn't do X, y and Z, you know.
Speaker 1:You know, the one thing we were talking about is in the beginning. And one thing I really want to hit on this and it comes up to this whole thing of like talk to talk, walk to talk. You know whatever the hell I was just going to say, but the thing is, everybody wants to be an operator, everybody wants to be. They all want CQB, they want advanced tactics, they want this and that and everything. But, callie, one thing I like about your course of instructions are your teaching basics, and everybody course of instructions are you're teaching basics and everybody knows if you've ever been to the soft community or law enforcement or t-swatter, anything. All the people I talk to is this you're taking those basic instructions, you're doing them, repetition, repetition, repetition. So learn the basics, then learn a little bit more about the basics, get really good at your handgun and then, if you want to move up to something else.
Speaker 2:Let's define what the basics are.
Speaker 2:Yes, do it because that's such an arbitrary term. Get good at the basics. But what the fuck does that mean, right? Okay, so what that means is how to apply pressure appropriately on your pistol. Do you know where and how to grip it and then where you should be squeezing right? Basic number one. Basic number two trigger press. How do you pull the trigger? How do you pull the trigger correctly and find your reset? And then, how do you do that at speed? How do you do that up close and how do you do that at distance? It's going to be different for all of these things.
Speaker 2:Sight picture Are you doing one of these with your head and your body to find your red dot or your iron sights, or are you bringing your pistol into your vision and finding it correctly the first time? Right? So, grip, sight picture and trigger press. That is it. And the people who are the best at firearms understand the three basic things the best. They have just ingrained that and made it a. What are the competency levels? I think it's called unconscious competence. You don't have to think about it anymore to complete it.
Speaker 1:You know, the last thing I want to talk about today is being authentic. A lot of people out there listening to this may have just really encountered you two for the both time. We know what sponsors are out there. We know who, people who are just leeching off anybody and everything in order to get their name out there into the firearms community. But I'd like people to understand that they need to vet their instructors. They need to find. It's just like me. I talked about going to counseling all the time but you need to find the right firearms instructor for you. So, callie, you are out there and how do people actually find you?
Speaker 2:so, if you're finding me through social media, there's a link in my bio for instagram, youtube, uh, I think there's one on x. I don't really do much with x or facebook, but I have them and they will direct traffic to my website. My email is all the way at the very bottom of the website, thevalkyrietribecom. If you want to go to Patreon, obviously you can search me through Patreon, the Valkyrie Tribe, or there's links in my bios. That's the easiest way. Instagram Callie Bear with two underscores. Callie bear with two underscores. Callie, underscore, underscore bear, or ask the Valkyrie tribe. One, one whole word.
Speaker 1:And Sarah, you aren't really in a public eye. And Callie, the Valkyrie tribe Are you still doing that? Yeah, that's how we find you. But, sarah, the other thing is like. This question is for you If you could train with anybody or go to any training, anything on your?
Speaker 3:on your eye or anything you're looking at in the future. Um, there's a couple of courses I'd like to to, as Callie puts on her Hannibal mask we got to talk about that too, um, but there's a couple, you know. There's like the Rogers school. There's a couple other courses that um that we go through. There's some extra firearms training that we have to better instruct students with a different part of our firearms course. So there's a lot. I'd like to become an FMAT as well. So it's kind of like, cause I'm not one of those like gun crazy people I love guns, right, but like the mechanics of it and, and so there's a course I can go to to kind of learn and break apart the gun completely, like take everything apart, inspect the guns every so I want to get better at that kind of stuff. Um, obviously, any chance I get, you know, uh, to watch Callie and and come out and train with her. I love that. Um, that was one of the first times I met her. No-transcript is amazing because you, it is very.
Speaker 3:It is a common theme where you talk to a lot of these females, whether in law enforcement or outside of it. Like I helped a girl the other day. Um, she was, uh, my friend's brother's girlfriend, right, and so we went to the range and she was messaging me. She just got her gun yesterday and she was so pumped and she's like I felt so confident in drawing from the holster because of what you showed me, you know.
Speaker 3:So it's like little things like that where a lot of women will be very intimidated by getting training from a man, and it's just the way it is.
Speaker 3:Like when I first started working out, I was nervous going to the gym because I didn't want people looking at me like, oh, look at that out of shape girl.
Speaker 3:Like it's the same thing with firearms, because you have these people that are so much better than you but and you're trying to learn, right. So I think it's that nurturing aspect comes in with women a lot. When you can embrace that side of you and then put it into the firearms training, a lot of the women just react so much better. So anything I can do to get better and and become a better instructor, um, there's so many courses I'd love to go to, but, um, you know, I I just take them as they come and just try to be the best version of myself so that, um, you know these students that I give them the best training that they can have going out there to the field, and because I kind of train everyone like they're going to a Memphis and sometimes I can get too passionate about it, but you know I never want anyone to go out there without the tools that they need to survive.
Speaker 1:So OK, Callie, you're up. What was that thing I want to talk about this.
Speaker 2:Everybody needs a red light mask. A about this. Everybody needs a red light mask a red light mask a red light mask.
Speaker 2:Jason, I will send you the article, so I'm I'm. This is part of one of my patreon videos. That I'm going to be doing is research on eye improvement so some of our older shooters can use a smaller red dot that, like you got, you could switch from a six MOA red dot to a 2.5 MOA red dot with, like some red light therapy. You can improve your vision with red light therapy and I've got a PubMed article right here medicine news today, nature article, webmd vision exercises, like things to improve your vision, so you can make those long distance shots.
Speaker 3:Send me a link to that too, if you would.
Speaker 2:This is like a hundred dollar red light mask on Amazon. It's not one of the best ones you can get, but I got this one because it does have the higher frequency. It's like 660 nano, whatever. I don't even know what the measurement is, but it's one of the higher ones you can get.
Speaker 2:Send me a link to that too. If and I was having some problems, so I sleep stupid I like to like do one of these and curl up. Yeah, so I shortened my bicep tendon right here and it was really really, really bothering because it goes like into your shoulder right and it was fucking killing me for a while. I started just putting this here at night for like 15 minutes before bed and it like doesn't hurt anymore.
Speaker 2:It's like a week of doing that pain yeah yeah, it's from sleeping like this you're shortening your bicep ligaments. Yep, so I'll sleep. Hey, sleep with your arms out.
Speaker 1:Okay, you too.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:You too. It is a Sunday and I appreciate you two for coming on to the show and I look forward to shooting with both of you too soon, not shooting at you, but with you at targets down range, but I do actually want to give a selfless plug to myself as a selfless self.
Speaker 1:I don't even know I would never do this, but I wrote a book and you both are veterans, so you understand that veterans have a tough time transitioning. They have a tough time pivoting into their next career. So I wrote a book called Pivot from Military Service to Public Purpose, and this is geared towards people who want to leave the government as a service member are veterans themselves, and this goes 24 months out until you actually ETS and to landing a job with the U S federal government or in the civilian private sector. I teach you everything from how to use USA jobs, how to do cover letters, what to wear at our interviews is 436 pages of in-depth information. For every service member and veteran out there who's looking to pivot into a new career and I also go into that one where you have to get that job the bridge job until you get to it.
Speaker 1:So that's my plug. So I appreciate you two both Really. I wanted to have this conversation and I really wanted to talk to you both about what it's like to jump into this career field, where there are ego and there were a ton of tactical Santos out there who just really need to update and upgrade their, their philosophies and get rid of the ego.
Speaker 2:So thank you. I have one more tip for people. There is a book written by Adele Carnegie and it's called how to win friends and influence people. It is one of the best books, aside from think and grow rich by Napoleon Hill, one of the best books you could ever read. And this will go for your private relationships, personal business relationships, how to win friends and influence people. And you'll have sometimes we got to let. We got to let people save face even though we don't want to. And, sarah, I know you're an expert at doing that and I wish you wouldn't do it as much. But sometimes, like when you're dealing with these people who are I hate this overused term but uber narcissistic, sometimes you have to feed into that in order to you know it's a survival mechanism. But how to win friends and influence people will help you manage a lot of those relationships as a female coming into these male dominated career fields, all right, y'all.
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