.png)
The Protectors® Podcast
Welcome to The Protectors® Podcast, where the valor meets the storyteller. Hosted by Jason Piccolo, a seasoned veteran and retired special agent, this series is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by the courage and tales of those who pledge to protect us. Beyond the front-line stories of bravery and dedication, this podcast goes a step further, weaving in the perspectives of those who bolster and narrate the protector's journey—featuring a remarkable lineup including New York Times Best Sellers and acclaimed Hollywood actors.
The Protectors® Podcast offers a diverse array of voices, from those who wear the uniform to the authors and entertainers who amplify their stories. It's a unique blend that highlights not only the raw realities faced by our protectors but also how their sacrifices inspire the narratives we cherish in literature and film. Each episode is a testament to the interconnected worlds of service and support, bringing listeners an unmatched depth of insight.
Dr. Jason Piccolo is a retired federal agent, former U.S. Army Infantry Captain (Iraq 2006), and author.
Past Guests Include:- Sean Patrick Flanery - Andrews & Wilson- Mark Greaney- Stephen Hunter- Remi Adeleke - Florent Groberg - Clint Emerson - Travis Mills
The Protectors® Podcast
519| Matt Dawson | BOOK DISCUSSION | Author STRENGTH IN SURRENDER
Matt Dawson, founder of Dawson's Peak Foundation and author of "Strength in Surrender." A former investment banker turned extreme adventure athlete, Dawson has conquered some of the world's most formidable challenges – from summiting the highest peaks on every continent to skiing the South Pole and rowing across the Atlantic Ocean.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Hey, I appreciate you having me on and listen. All my good friends call me Dawson, so please feel free.
Speaker 1:Dawson what's going on. You know, every time I hear Dawson I think Dawson's Creek man. I'm kind of aging myself a little bit.
Speaker 2:It's funny, I've gotten that my entire life since the show came out. And then our 501c3 Dawson's Peak Foundation is obviously a play on Dawson's.
Speaker 1:Peak. I like it. I like it. What is the foundation?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Dawson's Peak Foundation is a fully registered 501c3. That a very good friend of mine, Jay Jablonski. He and I started that back in August 2018.
Speaker 2:And our mission is to inspire the discovery and pursuit of individual purpose, to get people to understand that we're all capable of so much more than often we want to believe, Because a lot of times it's like, oh, I can't do this, I'm like I hate to break it to you. You can do whatever you want to believe. You know, because a lot of times it's like, oh, I can't do this, I'm like I hate to break it to you. You can do whatever you, whatever you want to do, but you know, a certain amount of power and responsibility comes with that, or responsibility comes with that power, rather. And then really just to get people to understand that our lives need to be lived with concerns about more than ourselves. It's not just about what we're doing in our lives for ourselves, but how we can be of service to others and how we can incorporate our purpose in elevating others. So, in a nutshell, that's who we are.
Speaker 2:The way that we accomplish our mission is by creating large global expeditions where we sponsor athletes that are pushing the boundaries of human potential and capabilities where viewers can draw parallels between themselves or athletes and say, hey, if this person's climbing a mountain or rowing an ocean or whatever, I can find a mountain or an ocean in my life in a relative sense that I'm concerned that I can't overcome or face or conquer or whatever, and to get people to understand that we're all capable of doing all these things. And it's been a great ride so far. We've got our current project, which is Seven for Soldiers, where I was attempting to set seven world records. I've set six so far. But most importantly is we're working with two of the highest rated veteran charities in the country Gary Sneeze Foundation, Hope for the Warriors and they're receiving 100% of the net proceeds from the money that we raise. So we've got to do some fun things but, more importantly, help some great organizations.
Speaker 1:You know, a lot of times and this podcast does reach a different audience, and a lot of the audience is from what I call the protector community. Those are the ones that are like kind of committed their life to service. But I've kind of expanded that to not everybody has to have a uniform on, not everybody has to have a badge. Not everybody has to have a uniform on. Not everybody has to have a badge. Not everybody has to have a gun. Not everybody has, like, swear an oath. But to me it's people who give back. And when you're talking about things like this, I think a lot of people don't understand that there's more to life than just money. There's more to life than just status. There's more to life than quote unquote being an influencer. That when you have a mission and maybe that mission does bring you to one of these things where you can find out what your true potential is, it's what really works for your mental health. You have to have something other than money and power. You really do.
Speaker 2:I think you said that very well. A lot of times you'll see these books or read movies and it's about the secret to life, what's the secret and all this kind of stuff. And in my opinion it's very, very simple. Life and like, what's the secret and all this kind of stuff, and in my opinion it's very, very simple. While we're here, we're here for only two reasons One is to live with a sense of purpose and secondly, or two, is to apply that purpose to elevate others. And it's really that's it. And it's like you just said is years ago is I was working 80 to 100 hours a week and investment banking and I worked my butt off, I mean for decades, you know to make my way in this industry.
Speaker 2:I was very comfortable personally and financially and could have what I wanted within reason, all this kind of stuff and I was in a dark, dark place. I was disconnected from myself, from others. I was just. I was angry, I was confused. I think a lot of people can relate to that, and it's not until I took a step back and started living a life of service to others, making my life about more than myself, that I've been a better place now than I've ever been. I feel more connected to others than I've ever felt and I feel more connected to myself. So it is to. Your point is I don't care how many Super Bowls you win, how many cars you have, how many houses you have, that's not going to lead you to a sense of fulfillment. It's simply not how it works. It's about being of service, and you said it very well. You don't have to have a badge on, you don't have to wear a uniform, you don't have to carry a gun.
Speaker 1:It's about we can all find ways of being of service to others, it feels so much better about giving back. You know, when you talk about like the money, the power, the status, the symbols. I used it to tell people I'm like you know my thirties and everything. I would do everything to build my resume, everything I possibly could do, I'd like to take certificates of education, everything. And then when I got in my forties, it was like you know what I want to have my personal resume Like what am I doing? You know so in my forties I started doing things that are like that means something to me, that are outside of that. And now, like in my fifties and now that I'm retired from being an LEO, is I'm looking at how do I have another mission? How do I keep continuing to give back after 30 something years? And I think a lot of people, when they leave any type of job or they transition or they pivot in life, that they need something or you will end up in a dark spot. Yeah, you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, look, I think you said that well, man is, we need a reason to get out of bed in the morning. But I want to be very clear it's not 100% about others. Clear it's not all, it's not a hundred percent about others is that you need to have things for yourself as well, that you're finding a sense of fulfillment or or you know, pushing yourself and expanding your limits and capabilities, your education or your understanding, or what are your resources. But then it's also about incorporating how you can use that expansion you know in the lives of others, cause I think I think I think sometimes people get confused and maybe they get too service oriented, where they're either consciously or subconsciously hiding from something personal that they need to work with. But I think you said it very well is that you've got to have a personal mission, a reason why you're getting out of bed in the morning every day, and not just because you have to. It needs to be something that you can be excited about, something you can take some pride in every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what? I tell people that all the time what you see on social media is like 5% of people's lives 2%, 1%. Yeah, it's great to be in service to others I have my own nonprofit, I do this, I do that but there are things that you need to do that will give you mental clarity, and that's one thing I want to talk to you today about is like it's that point you get where you want to push your body, because I think when you get to a certain point where you're pushing your body, you get clarity. You know, I did that. God who wrote the book? I interviewed him a couple of years, two, three years ago. He wrote a book like the 12 hour walk or something like that.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I remember I did that and it was just like some random day. I was like I got up at like five in the morning no electronics, no, nothing. And you know I I brought some um, just some water pack on me and snacks and I just got on this trail near my house that goes for 20 something miles and I just walked 12 hours, nothing, and I stopped to get coffee, have to do that. But you know you get a little sexist stuff, but just 12 hours, no electronics and I would say probably about um, 10 hours in um is when I started getting the clarity. You don't get the clarity unless you really push yourself. You have to push your mind, you have to kind of. You have to get to that point and I don't think you could do it in comfort, in a comfort zone.
Speaker 2:Now you can't. And the way that I look at it is it's kind of like an hourglass is when you start this 12 hour walk or you start, you know whatever it is. Fill in the blank is because it's like when I train, as I train, I always train alone. I never take music, anything like that, it's always just, it's just me and my thoughts. But it's when you first start off, it's very easy. There's a lot of room, there's a lot of space.
Speaker 2:The longer you do it, it starts kind of funneling down into this point where your mind can start speeding up. You, where your mind can start speeding up, you can start to feel anxiety, you can start to feel like all these things. You feel like you run out of oxygen, sometimes almost like you're underwater. But I can just tell you and you experienced this around the 10-hour mark is, if you continue to push yourself forward, you'll come through that darkest, smallest, most difficult point. Then it'll open back up and it's the bottom of that hourglass and then now everything is just speeding up, everything's just kind of falling out, everything opens up. And what I say is you break out of your personal gravitational field and you go to this other place where you, just you, open up. Your perception opens up, your appreciation opens up, your perspective opens up, everything opens up. But to your point is, you have to break through that, that sticking point in order to reach that that other side.
Speaker 1:You know that brings me back to like your origins in this, like were you always an athletic person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in a general sense is, I've always been athletic and active, but it was more in a traditional sense. So, as baseball football track is, I had a couple of contract offers to play professional football, you know that kind of stuff, but I didn't discover endurance and mountains and things like that until I was 38 years old and I didn't start training full time until I was 40. So it's kind of that old adage of it's never too late to become what you might've been. And when you start training 20 plus hours a week at 40 versus 20, you know, like you know is that there's a that's a different game. You know 40 year olds don't recover like 20 year olds do.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm hearing it, brother, and you know the thing is like. You know, mondays and Tuesdays are like hey, monday's chest and tries. You know what I mean. You have to do the things that are different. And you know, when you're getting to people trying to get, just start. Then, when they want to start moving their body, I always said people like just walk, yeah, just get out there and walk. And then when you start getting used to walking, if you want to jog, fine, I'm a huge proponent of rocking, uh, hiking anything where your body just moves, yeah and then then start working.
Speaker 1:I mean because, look you, you had that corporate gig. And I can imagine a lot of people are like, well, you're making a lot of money and you have the fancy things and fancy that, but you're putting in 40, 80, 100 hours a week and mentally you got to be drained. So how do you go from that mental drain to being like oh man, I got it, I got to shift. Man, I got to pivot.
Speaker 2:You know it's is I reached just an absolute breaking point. As I was, I was in my late 30s. I as I was, I was in my late 30s I'd achieved a level of success professionally. But, to your point is, I worked 80 to 100 hours a week for years and years and years. I mean I worked my butt off to get where I was and I'd forego how much money I had or what I bought is.
Speaker 2:I've just felt an increasing level of disconnection and an emptiness and a darkness inside of me that I couldn't understand. And it finally reached a breaking point where I was ready to either check in to life and to start living a different kind of life or just to check out, where I was virtually on the verge of suicide. I was in that dark a place where I mean I was virtually on the verge of suicide. Like I was in that dark a place and, long story short, at that same time my mother passed, I broke up with a serious girlfriend and and I knew I needed I needed to change everything about my life, and it wasn't going to be found by speaking with a counselor once a week or reading a book or listening to something, or like I needed to get away from anything and everything I knew. So I traveled alone to the Mount Everest region, the Khumbu Valley and the Himalayas, had no previous experience, like I couldn't have told you where Everest was. It was over there somewhere and the idea of climbing a mountain to me sounded dumber than hell, like that's stupid. But I just went there and it was on that trip that I had, you know, spending three weeks hiking alone.
Speaker 2:You know, through that to the region is I had a breakdown and a breakthrough. And the universe, or God, or the collective unconscious or whatever you want to call it, spoke to me and it's a longer story, I'm just going to give you the bullet point of it Spoke to me on this trip and it said that you're not living with any sense of purpose and your life is only about you. And in that moment I knew what my purpose was and I discovered what my purpose was, and that was to help people avoid the place that I was in, where I've been lost, alone in that darkness for decades, and it's a horrible place. You can't buy your way out of it, and you know. And I finally understood the potential, the power and the magnitude of it. And you know, and I finally understood that the potential, the power and the magnitude of every single second where our lives can change for better or for worse and never go back, and that's what kind of got me started on the journey that I'm on now.
Speaker 1:You brought up a good, a good word in there, the one that's like it's all about you. And you know I've I've dealt with a lot of people in these in my I was in the federal government for 20-something years and military and everything else. But you always get to certain people where it's always about them, it's always about the position and power, and they will ride that out until their 50s or 60s. But then there comes a point in their life where they have to hit it. I'd imagine either they're going to hit it on their deathbed or hopefully they'll hit it a lot earlier than that. Where they go, you know what? What is this all for? You get one life, one singular life. You were lucky, you caught it when you were in your 30s, your late 30s, early 40s, to where you said you know what, I've got to do something else. And you know when you say you go out and you hit a mountain and you do this and you do that. But you're getting the clarity that you need and you know I was reading a description of your book You're, you're surrendering to your mind.
Speaker 1:You know your mind. You know, believe me, we've, I've tied. We've all talked on this podcast a lot about suicide and the dark thoughts and the areas you get to. But and you have to get sometimes the only way you can get past it is if you surrender your mind to say you know what, wow, when you look at the global scale and I'm not getting all philosophical but if you look at this world and the things that you can see listen, I grew up on the Appalachian Mountains. There are so many things out there. I can see that I want to see. Like, my next goal is I want to just hike down the trail by myself and just do things. But you have to find something and surrender to it. You know it could be your higher purpose, it could be something, but you have to mentally surrender to get to that. That, that point you need to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's especially with your experience in the, in the military and with the government is we probably have very similar mindsets in many regards and that, you know, when I grew up, it was always to fight everything and it was just whatever was in front of me is I would just overcome it, I would destroy it, I'd go through it, I'd go, you know, whatever it was and everything just seemed like a fight to the death. And but after a while I had to do that for decades and decades. Literally and metaphorically it wears you out. And what I found to your point about surrender is a lot of people confuse surrender. You have that traditional negative connotation.
Speaker 2:Surrender, the way that we're using it, is not giving in, giving up and going along. It's finding new ways, more positive ways of meeting your needs. And the way that we do that is that you surrender into the unknown. And all this is in the book and there's like a very detailed process about what it is and how to do it and all this kind of stuff. But it's basically as you face your fears and hesitations and trepidations, you allow them to move into you.
Speaker 2:You don't run from them, you experience them to their fullest but, most importantly, you allow yourself to release them. So it's like a cloud that kind of comes into you, you experience it and then you release it to where you don't hold on to it and you don't give it the ability to take root within you, where you're carrying it with you for the rest of your life. Because a lot of times when we're upset during situations, we're not upset about the situation we're facing. That situation is simply bringing up things that we've dealt with, you know, dozens or hundreds or thousands of times. These things we just keep reliving, that we refuse to let go or we're unaware of how to let those things go. And that's what surrender is. It's finding strength through a different means.
Speaker 1:And I think surrender to me is also you've built these walls. We've all built walls, the security walls. You know we don't let people in, sometimes we don't let ourselves out, and surrendering is also tearing down those walls. So you could actually open up your mind, exactly, and open up your thought pattern. So you could actually open up your mind and open up your thought pattern.
Speaker 2:That's exactly it. And look, we all have these people in our lives that we call brothers, that we call sisters, that we call family. It's hey, I love you, man, I'll be there for you and you're there for me, and all this kind of stuff. But within that, we all have these things that we're too scared to share with anybody, these deep, deep things that we hold on to because we're either embarrassed or nobody can possibly understand what we're facing or whatever.
Speaker 2:Fill in the blank and I'm trying to get people to understand is we're all the same person, looking for the same things. We're just going about it in slightly different ways. And no matter what we're facing, whatever the pain and confusion and frustration is, I don't care what it is and I'm not diminishing it because I know it hurts, I know it's confusing and painful, but it's been faced by millions and billions of people, millions and billions of times. There's nothing unique about our pain and suffering and if we can understand that and communicate that better and more effectively to one another, it helps us to release that and, to your point, tear down these walls that we build consciously and subconsciously to protect ourselves. But what we don't understand is there's some protection, but there's also a cell that we're building around ourselves where we limit our ability to participate in life to its fullest.
Speaker 1:And there is more to life than monetary things and flashy cars and flashy people. I you know I was thinking about a mission and I'm like a mission is more than just others giving back to others. Sometimes a mission is yourself. Right, sometimes you gotta be like you know what I really need to work on my brain. I need to work on my body. I need to become the best version of myself. Now you did that, you're still doing. I imagine you're going to keep doing it. But these world records what are we?
Speaker 2:talking about here. What do we got going on? So, within a 12 month period, from from May 2021 to May 2022, is I was able to set five world records, and that was in a the. The activities included climbing the highest peak on each continent, skiing to the South Pole, rowing a boat across the Atlantic Ocean and then becoming the first person to trek, solo and unsupported, across the Mojave Desert and Death Valley. And then, since that time, I went back to the Mojave. That was 213 miles was the original crossing. I went back and did about a 330 mile crossing, which was another freestanding record.
Speaker 2:But the whole purpose of it is not just to say, hey, look at this guy doing these extreme things which most people are never going to do. It's a Trojan horse to facilitate a deeper conversation, to say, hey, if this guy's doing this, then I can find something comparable in my life and really all these physical endeavors. I enjoy being out there, I enjoy being in the pain and the challenge of it, but more than anything, it's a tool or a mechanism of self-reflection and, just like you said, is where you need to work on yourself first before you can help others. It's a way of me being able to discover more about myself, where I can have a stronger personal base, to where I can perform better and more for the world around.
Speaker 1:And relate to people too. You know, we could listen, you could do 8 million different world records and stuff, but when you, there's always a way to relate to people. And when you, when you relate to someone, maybe they can't do a world record, but maybe they could do a record for themselves. That could be, you know, hey, I want to walk around the block. Some people are immobile. Maybe it's like uh, I haven't had this book in the back of my head for 20 years. Maybe I just sit down, buckle down and do it. But you have to have some sort of purpose and that's how you can relate to other people. You can find purposes in anything.
Speaker 1:Exactly you can find your limits in anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's again, and we're not telling people as an organization and I'm not telling people to go out and climb Mount Everest or to do something like that. To your point is we all have these things in our lives. It may be having a conversation with somebody that you've been putting off for 20 years, or having the courage to quit your job and to pursue something that you feel is going to fulfill you, or starting a family or ending a bad marriage or whatever it is. We all have these things. You, or starting a family or ending a bad marriage or whatever it is, we all have these things.
Speaker 2:It's just a matter of pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zones to learn about ourselves and to understand, because I think you know we talk about, people are scared that they're not enough most times, or they believe. I think more than that, most people are more scared that they're more powerful than they want to believe. Because with that power comes responsibility. Because if you don't have any power, you can sit back being that hapless victim saying, hey, my hands, you know it's outside of my hands. I don't have any control, I don't have any power here, but when you understand how much power you do have, there's a level of responsibility that comes with that, and it's like you pick up one end of the stick, you get the other, and that's what we're trying to get people to realize is that we're all capable of doing more. It's just fill in the blank with whatever is best for you respectively.
Speaker 1:Well, the other power is the power to invest in yourself. And that doesn't have to be investing money in yourself, but just invest your time. We fill up the hours of the day, we fill up the minutes, we fill up the seconds with everything we possibly can. And if you think about just how much time it takes to take that first step sometimes literally minutes. When you want to push your body, you start somewhere. You could literally walk five minutes a day to start. You could literally say, hey, you know what I wanted to write that book for 20 years. You could literally take 15 minutes every night. You could do anything you want, but you have to invest your own time. You have to invest in yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which. It's just like if you're going to be, you know, an anchor or try to be as a support for you know, for someone else, another network or whatever, is that you have to have your own solid foundation first. And it's just, if you want to build the prettiest house in the world but the foundation sucks, then you're going to have issues. So to your point is and we talked about this a little bit earlier is, before you can really truly help others to the maximum of your ability is you've got to develop your own foundation first, but then also work to maintain that foundation going forward. It's not just a matter of you work for a day. You got your foundation and then you never have to address it again. You got to do something every single day to check that foundation, make it bigger, make it stronger, and that'll just maximize your own performance, but then again, your ability to help others, Now can you imagine you knew this?
Speaker 1:you knew this in your twenties, you know, I think back about some of the things that my physical being in my twenties compared to this now. But imagine you had clarity. And what I like to say about people with clarity is it doesn't have to be 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, even 60s or 70s or 80s. Find it and do something with it, clear your mind and you have to build on it.
Speaker 2:You know something that it's funny. You brought that up. So I've got a niece and a nephew that are 17 and 18. And I recently saw them. And one thing I talked to them about, and I talked to a lot of younger people about, is I wish I had a greater, a greater understanding of the role that I want to play in the world when I was younger, and especially with the concept of concepts of appreciation and and perspective. You know, and I think the greater your level of perspective, the greater your level of appreciation and the more clarity you can have out of your life, and I think that's something that needs to be communicated to younger people. You know earlier on to where we don't just start having these big, these big revelations. You know, in our 40s, 50s, 60s we start to work on a little bit earlier. But again, it's your understanding of things changes. You understand things a little bit better or differently as you get older. But at least to initiate the conversations with with younger people.
Speaker 1:Oh, believe me, I'm doing that with my kids. I have two teenagers, a 14 and a 16 year old, and it's like the way their dedication to sports is like nothing I've nothing I've ever had. You know their dedication to, like you know, just things like that and they're, they're frugal and just I'm like I'd like to think it's some good parenting. But, man, like they just have different clarity. Like you know, when I was a kid, I just was, yeah, what I want to do, I just want to get through the day I work my job and do some sports with these guys, or, uh, it's crazy how the you know, maybe it's their, their eyes are open up to the world more than we were when we were kids. I, I don't know, but it's just. Maybe they have some good mentors here and there, but, like you said, man, they just have to open their eyes to things.
Speaker 2:It is. I think it's a combination of that, and then it's just every day is do something that you can be proud of. And to your point is, I don't care if that's taken one step, that you didn't take the step the day before, if that's walk around the block, if that's writing a sentence in the book or you know whatever it is. Just do at least one thing every day that you can be proud of, and that stuff starts to build upon itself and you start to feel better about yourself, even subconsciously. Then it eventually will show itself consciously and start moving in a better direction.
Speaker 1:So you wrote the book. And I always tell people, mike, if you have a book and you write it because a book is a legacy, it's more than just you know a podcast or this or that. But where did the idea of the book come from?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It was really just wanting to share the journey. You know that I'd been on with people and you know the book starts from when I was very young. You know that I'd been on with people and you know the book starts from when I was very young. You know, through today it's basically a personal memoir that includes the all the records and all the events and everything. But it's just.
Speaker 2:It's more than anything. It's a matter of the human experience and about getting us to relate to one another, cause you know, in there they're all my personal journals that I never thought would be published, from my expeditions that are very kind of raw and colorful and embarrassing at times. But then there's also lessons that are incorporated throughout the narrative, that are just things I learned along the way, that helped me on a daily basis. And then there's major, major pillars that I call meditations. They're like the major things I've learned over the past couple of years, major things I've learned over the past couple of years.
Speaker 2:And then at the end of each chapter there's an ask yourself and apply yourself section where you can take what you've read, ask yourself three or four very direct, poignant questions, sit quietly with them, and then there's an apply yourself where you can. There's, you know, directives where you can apply, you know today, and so if someone isn't concerned, isn't interested in hearing about you know, the mountain was 26,000 feet and it was 30 degrees below zero and the desert was 100 degrees. My pack was 400 pounds and if that doesn't interest you, there's so much more to the story that's in there. But that kind of stuff does interest you. All that stuff's in there as well.
Speaker 1:That sounds really good, man. I'm going to pick up a copy myself, but we're looking at what.
Speaker 2:January release right, yeah, so January 7th will be the ebook, the audio book and the paperback. A couple of weeks ago we we did open the ebook to pre-release on Amazon and I'm proud to say we've been number one Amazon to release for several weeks now and getting a very big uh, uh. You know some great feedback on that, so it's been wonderful to see.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate you coming on to awesome man. I'm looking forward to the book and looking forward to watching your next ventures, and I like the fact that you're helping out the Gary Sinise foundation. That's a that's a solid organization, right there.
Speaker 2:It's funny man as I've known. Dude for 10 minutes you come, it's a weird. It's weird is you come away feeling better about life but you feel worse about yourself because he's such, he's such a good person. You're like, how can this guy be so good? You know, but he, he's exactly you know what?
Speaker 1:I tell you what it is tough, a tough, tough, tough in the veteran community to find a non-profit that is authentic and that is one that I would vouch for, like any day of the week, and for someone to constantly give back, like constantly. I mean, if we're talking like decades now, probably I can't remember when gary sinning's foundation started, but it's been a long time and uh, just what a solid human being man.
Speaker 2:Oh dude, he's awesome. And then then the other group, hope for the Warriors, which got started by Robin Kelleher, primarily initially as a as a Marine, focused, you know, charity. But the charity Navigator is a group that that vets you know and scores a lot of charities and, as you know, there are thousands, literally thousands of veteran focused charities. Hope for the Warriors and Gary Steeves Foundation, year in, year out, are two of the top 10 rated charities. So both these groups are just wonderful, valid organizations that we've certainly come to trust and really enjoy working with.
Speaker 1:Cool brother. Well, I appreciate it, man. We'll keep in touch.
Speaker 2:Hey, thank you, I appreciate it.
.jpg)
