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The Protectors® Podcast
Welcome to The Protectors® Podcast, where the valor meets the storyteller. Hosted by Jason Piccolo, a seasoned veteran and retired special agent, this series is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by the courage and tales of those who pledge to protect us. Beyond the front-line stories of bravery and dedication, this podcast goes a step further, weaving in the perspectives of those who bolster and narrate the protector's journey—featuring a remarkable lineup including New York Times Best Sellers and acclaimed Hollywood actors.
The Protectors® Podcast offers a diverse array of voices, from those who wear the uniform to the authors and entertainers who amplify their stories. It's a unique blend that highlights not only the raw realities faced by our protectors but also how their sacrifices inspire the narratives we cherish in literature and film. Each episode is a testament to the interconnected worlds of service and support, bringing listeners an unmatched depth of insight.
Dr. Jason Piccolo is a retired federal agent, former U.S. Army Infantry Captain (Iraq 2006), and author.
Past Guests Include:- Sean Patrick Flanery - Andrews & Wilson- Mark Greaney- Stephen Hunter- Remi Adeleke - Florent Groberg - Clint Emerson - Travis Mills
The Protectors® Podcast
514 | Conor Donahue |Navy SEAL | ACE Virtual Shooting | With A.M. Adair
Unlock the secrets of transitioning from military service to thriving entrepreneurship with our guest, Conor Donahue, as he shares his journey from Navy SEAL to the founder of Ace Virtual Shooting. Alongside his old friend A.M Adair (and Protectors co-host!), Conor recounts stories from their military days, filled with camaraderie and humor, like the quirky training exercises that saw them role-playing as a married couple. Discover how Conor's military experience has been a guiding force in his approach to building a startup, where leadership, teamwork, and adaptability are paramount.
Explore the cutting-edge world of virtual shooting simulators and how they are revolutionizing training for law enforcement and military personnel. We delve into the pivotal moments and challenges that Conor and his team faced while creating a product that spans 60 countries.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
Today is half my retirement going towards ammo, but there doesn't need to be half my retirement going towards ammo. But we're joined today by Conor Donahue and AM Adair is back in the co-host. What's going on, guys?
Speaker 3:Good to be with you. I was actually admiring the glasses. Jason, Are you going for like an intellectual look now that you're in your 50s?
Speaker 1:I'm going for the. I can't see anybody look and I better put my glasses on while I'm writing notes on the side here. Anybody look, and I better put my glasses on while I'm writing notes on the side here.
Speaker 3:Well, thanks for having me back, and I am, I'm stoked to be here, because you know, connor and I go way back and I was trying to remember I really before we went to a mutual friend's wedding, I think it had been what?
Speaker 2:14 years or so we lost all each other. Yeah. Just like old times.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's something that I think that is true of everybody who's done military service is like you know, your friendships survive. You know the time, distance and silence, and so when you get back together, it's just kind of everything just picks right back up. And you know I was joking I dug our old cft troop hat out of my, uh, out of my storage so that way I could wear for this, because I was, you know, I got my protector shirt, of course, for Jason, and but then you know rocking some of the old school swag just for this.
Speaker 1:I love it Now you guys go way back. Now, what was the first time you guys met, when, where and how? Let's see the who, what, when, where and how.
Speaker 2:So we, we were in the same unit what, when, where and how. So, yeah, we were in the same unit. That was together from 2009 to around 2010, 2011,. A cross-functional team, and so it was probably in that that whole workup. We did a lot of training together. So our unit was great because it brought together, you know, operators, Intel, a lot of support functions, Intel, a lot of support functions, and so it was pretty cool to have everyone integrated, supporting this mission and really doing a lot of cutting edge things. It's cool to kind of experiment and think through how do we do this?
Speaker 3:So it's a good time. Yeah, there was a lot of stuff we were doing that nobody was really doing at the time. But yeah, I was supposed to go to the same location as Connor for what was my last NSW deployment, but then once we got in country I got yanked out to go to a different spot. But it's just kind of the way things go. But yeah, we had some good times doing our workouts.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Probably some stories that should probably stay in the past.
Speaker 2:There definitely was some trying trying to uh role play cover and all those things. So I think at one point I had to act like we were a married couple, uh bickering, so that was pretty awkward. But hey, you do what you gotta do and try to say but we're a good team, we got we figure it out, yeah I don't know.
Speaker 3:I thought you're bickering. Seemed to come naturally.
Speaker 2:That wasn't the hard part.
Speaker 1:I really do like this overt world of and now. Because for when you first started co-hosting, it was always like, well, you know, I worked for the Navy and this and that, and nothing about an NSW and and, oh, you know, I just do Intel, you know, trying to be all spooky, but it was funny. And now it's like, oh yeah, I did this mission and we're acting like a married couple and just don't use your, your cover emails, because everybody will know who your real names are.
Speaker 3:Well, see, like you, that's the beauty of retirement now. So for me, I transitioned out and it was a little bit smoother just because I started writing before I transitioned. But, Connor, how did that work for you? Because you went from service to business owner. So how did that work?
Speaker 2:for you Because you went from service to business owner. So how did that work? Yeah, quite a transition. You know, went to business school, did a few things in the business world and now running this startup, ace Virtual Shooting.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of respects. It has like you're building a small team, you're working in a uncertain, very fluid environment, high stakes in a sense of like you know, you're trying to keep people employed, you're trying to get this thing out there. You got to make decisions with little information. In one sense it kind of brings back that similar sense of challenge you know from the military and that you know cohesiveness. You built a small team, which I find very fulfilling, but you had to learn a whole new language and all that business stuff. So that was definitely a steep learning curve and I'm sure anyone who's transitioning can appreciate that You're kind of a fish out of water. You're in a new world, so to speak, which is different culturally in other ways than the military. But I think fresh challenges are good for anyone and I think that's what I found with the startup world is that it kept me working hard, growing, learning, looking forward and see what else I can do. So it's not been easy, but very rewarding.
Speaker 1:Well, coming up with your own mission. In a military, we always have a higher mission. There's always something. Someone a commander, a general, someone up above always put out the mission statement and then that gets delegated all the way down to the lowest, lowest level. But now you're the man in charge, now that you're the one going into this business world and you have to learn a whole new skillset like a whole new skillset.
Speaker 1:I mean, a lot of things are the same when it comes to leadership and teamwork and this and that, but when you're talking about fiscal responsibility, you're talking about marketing, you're talking about product development, because it's like this is the ACE virtual shooting simulator. So this isn't just something you, I'm going to my garage and I'm putting something together. No, this is like a whole system. So when you're doing this, you're not going to obviously you're not going to take everybody just from the NSW or or just from your, your, your close knit crew. You're going to have to reach out to subject matter experts. That's right Now. When you were building your team, what were you looking for?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good point. I mean so to your point. We have a VR app. So I'd never even put one of these things on before. This is a meta quest three. So we have a VR app that goes on here. So you're talking like software development. Uh, I am not that tech early adopter by trade. Then we've got this, this hardware. So now I've got this physical device that this um controller goes in and to figure out how to make it so hardware, so I also.
Speaker 2:Now I'm honestly thinking what, what am I doing here? I've got two worlds that I am not steeped in the knowledge of here. I gotta figure both out. And then you mentioned the business side on top of it, and I think a few things that really I learned quickly is you've got to have this curiosity about it. You can't be afraid to say I don't know how that works, or walk me through that, or let me just jump in and just kind of mess around and not be embarrassed to look foolish or to ask a silly question. And the other thing, like you mentioned, there are search matter experts like I don't have all the answers, and I think sometimes, as leaders, you get this sense of I don't want to embarrass myself all week if I don't have the right answer. Don't know it. I had to let go of that quickly and tell people like I'm counting on you. You know you're going to have this important part that we need in our organization, and they respected me for asking that. I think.
Speaker 2:Then they trusted whatever decision I made because I was taking their opinion. I was saying, like, tell me what you think If you were my shoes, what would you do? So you're right. So software developers, hardware engineers have all those people on my team, and this is that idea of it's not I've got the best ideas or it's gotta be. Follow what my plan is. It's we all to contribute to this and ultimately I've got to make the call um, but you're going to trust that I'm doing it with all your, your inputs and expertise. And you need this environment of candor. That's probably the last thing of like. You know everyone's got to feel comfortable being like that's, that's the dumb idea, or I wouldn't do it that way.
Speaker 2:And then they also have to have the trust to be like well, once we do decide something it's not the idea you had, maybe for reasons that you don't understand business-wise, otherwise, we've got to unite and get behind and go forward. So you can imagine, in a startup environment you have a lot of these emotional conversations. You've got all of these ideas and you don't know. You don't know which one's right, but at some point we make a decision and we've done a great job. Like you, close ranks and we're going to go down this path. We're going to try this. We're going to, we're going to move forward as United Front and keep all that you know behind closed doors and we're going to own this as a team and we've done that. But you know, you make a lot of mistakes along the way and learn lessons. So you just can't beat yourself up because it's a roller coaster for sure. It's a roller coaster for sure.
Speaker 1:What was the shining light moment? What was the moment you said you know what. This needs to be out there, this product needs to be developed, or a product like it. Were you like. Were you just like game planning? Because me and my friends we AM knows this we're always just chit-chatting, we're always looking for something else. We're always like, hmm, maybe if we do this, we do that.
Speaker 2:So how'd this, how did this come up? Well, it really was that kind of light bulb moment like you're talking about. It's really odd. So, coming from the military, I'm sure, like any veteran or police folks can understand, those people are being like, hey, can I shoot with you? Can you tell me how to shoot? Can you show me these skills? And it is very difficult Logistically.
Speaker 2:You've got to find range time. It's not cheap, like you mentioned before the ammo. Then there's a lot of restrictions like okay, you know it took us like hundreds of hours to be allowed to do these really cool dynamic things. You know you're not going to do that. They want people kind of let down. So there's always the back of my mind there's this need out there. People want that.
Speaker 2:So I went to this event at a hotel ballroom a couple years ago and it was a prototype, kind of the early demo of ace virtual shooting, um, and it was just kind of the the tech co-founder who would be my co-founder there running it. And I walked in this ballroom and I saw people laughing, drinks were going around, there's high five because of a hard time, and projected on the screen was what somebody was shooting with this on and this handset, and so this isn't a fun environment. This is what people always would want to experience with their shooting. So that was kind of telling. The other thing was we had world champion competitive shooters there. We had SWAT special operations guys and we had like regular folks as well. And so this idea is like, okay, I'm going to give the world champion shooter this he's never used this before Give him this, this gun, like handset he's never done and say, like, just do what you normally do, like trust your muscle memory and hopefully it pays off.
Speaker 2:And sure enough, those guys did the best. They won the competition we're having, which is that was a light bulb moment. Say, wow, their skill transferred directly to the vr, like the technology's gotten to the point where you can have the ballistics, um, the ergonomics, the responsiveness of this. It'd be. It would be bad if it's like me at the arcade laser tag, where I'm getting smoked by like a seven year old. Clearly my skills aren't transferring at all. You know, this is like embarrassing and they're just destroying me.
Speaker 2:But this was different. This was the best guys won, which is what you'd want. And then and it was, you know, seeing those guys be like this is legit. It was a huge signal for us. So then I thought, okay, I've got something that's super convenient and fun, but now it has the realism that you've got to have for someone who cares about the skill value and skill building. So that was kind of my opportunity. I went to my buddy on the team and said I really would like to get on board with this and, you know, kind of help build out the business side of it. And I've get on board with this and, you know, kind of help build out the business side of it. And, uh, I've been honored to kind of be one of those co-founders and build a team ever since. And and now we've got users in 60 countries, um, thousands of members, and it's just really cool to see it take off and see people get that same experience that I saw that day the.
Speaker 1:The main snapshot you have right now is geared more towards competitive shooting. As far as, like when you go onto your website and stuff like that I, you know, I've been a gamer for decades. I haven't gained okay, I shouldn't say that because I haven't gained in like five years but when I first got into the field as a special agent, I always tell this story about visual acuity. Now, I used to play a lot of first-person shooters, so I'm always looking all over the screen at what's going on over here, over there, over there here. Hey, you know well I'm going to get shot from over there. So we're following this. These two vans out. You know they came from the border. They're both loaded with drugs. We know they're loaded with drugs because the canine hit. We're doing a covert surveillance on them. We're eventually going to we had a helicopter up. We're following it out.
Speaker 1:All of a sudden the van drives down a dead end road, but it didn't look like a dead end road to our air assets. So all of a sudden it stops and we're like we bottleneck and our car is up. They see us behind them and they start jetting the vans unload. There was about three or four people and as the people are leaving. You know weapons drawn, we're looking at them and I'm pointing out to where all the different people are running, because usually you know when you focus in on something, sometimes you can get some tunnel vision. So when you're aimed in but because I played first person shooters I guarantee it was because it is I could see everything else going on at the same time as I was focused in on my main suspect. So I always put that up to virtual I mean, um, visual acuity built off of video games. So when you're looking at a virtual shooting simulator and now I mean we're talking, this was a while ago. And now when you're talking about virtual shooting and I'm looking at what you guys have going on, you know, about five, six years ago I got into competitive shooting.
Speaker 1:So USPSA, idpa and everything I could. It's all about getting from target to target and getting shot placement on target while you're moving, while you're doing this stuff from target to target and getting shot placement on target while you're moving, while you're doing this stuff. This to me is a perfect option for people getting in a competitive shooting and I'll get off my soapbox here in a minute. But as a law enforcement instructor. As someone who taught a major police department for the past six months until a couple of weeks ago, I know that in the law enforcement world, this would be absolutely ideal. As far as looking at you know your threat actors out there, blue on blue, shoot, don't shoot. A 360 degree environment in your own home or in a training room compared to, like a, you know, a one way range. This has so much to it than just competitive shooting. So that's why I was excited to have you on here. And yes, you're coming from the NSW background and stuff, but from the LEO background, I'm looking at it as like just a completely different parameter.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. I think you're right. We've started with a lot of competitive shooting drills because it trains all those fundamentals you talked about. But there's a broader opportunity here in need for not only law enforcement military, which are a lot of our early adopters. We have dozens of SWAT and special operators. There's kind of guys on, but then anyone who's a gun owner who says, hey, I probably should not be so rusty, I should work my proficiency. What do you really need? You need time on trigger. You need getting that sight picture and that vision. Jj Recaza he just won one of the national competitions in competitive shooting a couple months ago. He told us he's his ace. He said the visual training that he got from this was with center part, which is what your point was.
Speaker 2:Another guy, matt Little. He's a 29-year Green Beret vet and then did SWAT for several years and now he's been an instructor for 15 years. Same type of thing. He's using his training, telling all his guys and police to do this. Keep going with your story.
Speaker 2:This guy who just reached out a couple weeks ago to us, nilspec Mojo. That's his Instagram handle. He's a guy who just reached out a couple weeks ago to us Nilspec Mojo. That's his Instagram handle. He's a former Marine who's now an instructor in the police. He's like man, this thing's amazing, he's like, but show it to my police chief. He's like I'm kind of skeptical, which, honestly, is the same way I was when I first walked in that room. Like this thing looks kind of like a toy and I've done VR and I kind of get kind of dizzy. And it's police chiefs like we, we got to have that. We've got one one drill in there with a car you can work a pillar b pillar, you can have all kind of things like that. And they were blown away by saying that there's applications for real world practical skills that you can get. Uh, but I think it's exactly right. There's. There's just fundamentals that are just very difficult to get otherwise and it's cool to see something that can now unlock that for folks well, you know what.
Speaker 1:I'm going to jump on the bandwagon again because AM knows that I have a foundation called the Protectors Foundation. Okay, and now I've been around a ton of. I've been a fed. I was a fed for 20-something years and if I wanted to go to training it's like, okay, put it, we'll find a budget, whatever.
Speaker 1:But 90% of the LEOs out there I would say at least 90 are any small departments out there. They don't have the ammo. Ammo, which is what you know. Even if you buy bulk ammo you're still looking at. 250 rounds is going to be half of someone's. You know that's three days work for for a cop. The departments can't afford to go out and spend x amount of money on ammo. They're lucky enough to spend enough money to qualify their officers once a year and that qualification to them is considered training, and we all know qualification is not training.
Speaker 1:So when I think about, when I watch the news and when I, when I D not, I'm not going to say um when I evaluate shootings and stuff like that, I look at things like this Okay, well, was that officer trained? We always the public assumes that all officers are crack shots, but as someone who's worked with officers, I know that a lot of times the bullets are going off target. So when a bullet goes off target, that's where innocents get shot, that's where a lot of different things can happen, that's when blue on blue can happen. But when you're looking at something like this, where you could virtually train and work on your shot placement Now, yes, there are always going to be limitations to virtual training, especially when it comes to recoil, trigger control and all that.
Speaker 1:But when you're talking about scenario-based and getting on target and here's the deal is, when bullets are coming back at you, 99.9% of the time you are going to be moving your ass. When we go to a static range, we're pointing our weapon down range. We're doing these perfect, beautiful shot placements. It's the best thing ever. But when you have stress and you're moving and with the virtual movement on this, you could move around. You can move around and you can get behind cover. You could learn how to get behind cover. You could learn how to do all sorts of different things with it. So I'm trying to say here it's like this would be perfect for like, for my foundation is to go and give these, not give, you know. Obviously, buy them and donate them to departments because they don't have training.
Speaker 2:That's right. You know, so I like, I like the long-term aspect of this.
Speaker 2:Oh, so we hear that so often, just like you said, that the budgets are tight. I don't think people appreciate that. I think there's this belief that, oh, these cops all around the country, every day they're just shooting hundreds of rounds. Like that's just not reality of what, what the budgets can sustain. And it's a great point of. In the real world, things can come from 360 and they can be moving and there's barricades, but how difficult that is to have range work for good reason. It's very risky and so, yeah, we do like thinking of ourselves as part of the solution to that problem, like we can enable people to be proficient, we can help them have that readiness because we're responsible for every round we take in live fire. So anything that can help us make sure that we're producing any unwanted risk there is great.
Speaker 3:Well, I think you hit it right when you said first person shooter. I mean, this is first person shooter to the nth degree. I mean this is in golden eye and everybody's's college storms back many years ago. But in addition to you being able to get those repetitive muscle memory movements down to build that proficiency, you're building morale, you're building team cohesion. I mean you can cash that stuff up on something.
Speaker 2:There's competition, there's leaderboards. Oh yeah, guys would love that.
Speaker 3:I feel the trash talking. Just listening to you guys talking right now, I can feel it you can see how great it could be just to and then negligent discharge that you don't have to worry about. You don't have to worry about making sure that I know what's beyond my target. All those things you can really get into it.
Speaker 2:That's definitely. That's definitely right. There's a competition, we have these live leaderboards and it's crazy how that compels people to be like I got to go again One more, one more go. But you know, what they're doing is they're getting training Like they're getting more trigger presses. So it's kind of like the Peloton effect of like when I make a competitive and part of all of a sudden like I'm gonna go harder to beat that person. We've asked, like we tricked you into now you're, it makes off more fit standing of the shooting skills. How can we take that same principle to drive you do more trigger presses and it's amazing how, um, how it's how it's giving people so many more reps. We've got people that shoot so much we. I was talking to one guy. He's like I'm waking up with hand cramps next morning. I'm like how many how many?
Speaker 2:did you do last night, I don't know? 3,000 or 4,000 rounds. I'm like that's insane. You would never do that with a regular gun. But we have about a three and a half pound trigger pull on this, and so this is the amount of reps you're getting. We had a guy that joined. In his first 48 hours he shot 24,000 rounds, and just think about the training value that with ammo and everything else, um, and so you talk about the vision you get all these things. It's amazing how it accelerates things in a way that you know when you're impossible before this. So, uh, yeah, we're excited about how they can help people now when you're speaking about, the weapons are realistic.
Speaker 1:They're based off of like yeah, I'm not even going to mention staccato well, I'm gonna tell you about that.
Speaker 2:You're not. I'm not gonna tell tell that story.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to tell the staccato story all right but um that's right, so they're. They're 3d printed before we get into it uh 3d printed. My main question was holsters yes okay. So we didn't go into the 3d print because I want to know all about the holsters, because me I'm looking at it like competition shooting. I mean you don't need like weapon retention, you don't need to worry about like a lot of different things. So you could you could do something like this yeah, really really cool.
Speaker 2:We, we have a custom Kydex holster that we came out with and it's basically a universal mount. So it's QLS fire link compatible, it's ambi, you can put it on left to right. It comes with a paddle so you can throw it in your jeans and get some some reps at home, um, because we heard that was a huge request. Next, I don't get a lot of chance to holster draw. My indoor range will never let me do holster draw and it's like that's a great point, and so we definitely we have a holster that it goes with.
Speaker 2:And then the gun model matters, as you're talking about that, the muscle memory, what it feels like in my hand. So there's two things that we've we kind of realized and all this that really really matter. One is in the vr app. You've got to have what you see very realistic the way the bullet behaves, target physics, um, the trajectory. So we built in all that and uh.
Speaker 2:And the other piece is what you're feeling in your hand. It's got to feel like my gun in terms of the weight, the trigger in particular, and the dimensions, the dimensions. So, as I was mentioning, so this is a staccato P frame with 3D printers all the same dimensions and we have steel in here. So people look at this and they say, oh, it's like a cheap toy. Well then they feel like, oh, wow, it's worth a few ounces of the actual P weight, and then the trigger has like a wall and then a break, you know, and it has that kind of feel. And then a break, you know, and it and it has that kind of feeling. Then the reset, um, and so we figured that's the parts that really matter, at least from my experience or other folks that you know that shoot a lot, tell us, forget the realism, and so that's uh that's been.
Speaker 1:I gotta pause you. You know I gotta pause you right there, man, as soon as you said the wall, because one of the things I do when I'm instructing is I'm like listen, especially with novice shooters. Now this doesn't just have a law enforcement application. This has like if I, as an instructor to regular basic families and regular basic individual shooters who have just got into the shooting market, picked up their weapon for the first time, they're like oh my gosh, this is I don't know what to do with it, and a lot of times I my grip and then trigger wall to wall, shooting Like. I'm always like when you press out, you hit the wall, you wall to wall, wall to wall. So when I'm thinking about this in the training aspect for everyday shooters, there's so much like when you get on that grip and you have something that feels like a real weapon and then you get the grip and you get the trigger. That is such a huge part of basic, fundamental shooting. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. You know we we don't have the um, the recoil on these. It messes with the, the vr off the shelf kind of gyroscope. But then you know, people that shoot a lot say like that's helpful, but most important is the trigger pull and it's not acquisition. That is what you got to rest, basically drive fire. This is basically like turbocharged drive fire. You know I'm going to turn the value get, and then so it's. It's definitely an exciting scene to see and and, for example, we've got this three, six, there's a P, three, six, five, six, three, p, six, five. Handset too. So you're right, preparedness everyday, carry, and it's cool to see, like man, now people can have those reps safe. You can leave this out. If you had kids at home, you can just get reps whenever you want.
Speaker 3:It's. There's no gun parts in it, um, but hopefully give people that proficiency that they need. Say another part of this I, like you guys, probably didn't think of it when you were coming up with it, but from a entertainment and a creative background you know you think about like, especially in the thriller world, if you screw something up, people will eat you alive. It really isn't practical to go and take your gun and see if I do the shoulder roll out here in the rain.
Speaker 3:You could probably have a little bit more freedom of movement to try to work out the scenes in your head to see how it works.
Speaker 1:Actors could use it, writers could use it, writers could use it, and then okay, I gotta stop you right there, because this has been my biggest pet peeve when it comes to the thriller world. Now you have this, this dynamic operator. He's going all over the world and his shot placement one day he's doing cqb. Five months later he's doing a 50 000 yard shot with a 22 rifle trajectory up into the. I mean just crazy. I mean you can't even imagine.
Speaker 1:But they never, you never, ever, ever hear. Let me maybe once in a while I was over this but you never hear about them going to the range. So I want to see Amy, you never hear about them training. Yeah, put accepted. You never hear about them. Training. Put in the time. Right, yeah, you know what tonight, you know, uh, protagonist eli or ella, whatever, is working on her ace virtual, because that's the thing is, like the protagonist in these books never trained. There we go. That's a competition for you, anybody that reads out there that right, you gotta put in the time no, but you're right, but the training does matter.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. We had we started this and one of early adopters was like hey, um, I went to competitive shooting match after having ACE for three months ago and I was like two or three classes better. The guys thought I was sandbagging my last one. They thought there's no way. Like what have you been doing? Like I've actually been busy shooting ACE all the time. Like this is ridiculous.
Speaker 2:And then that guy, matt Little, was telling me about the instructor, or he just made Grand Master the first time and he's out telling people like aces and they put me over their edge, which is crazy to us. You know, we always we believe there's that value. But then they start hearing these stories. But it makes sense, you know you get quality training reps in and I think the reality is a lot of times it's boring, like you say, the protagonist, why don't they show that scene? Because sitting in your house and pulling this pretend trigger man, that's boring. I got, I've done that it is. It's like, uh, you know, it's like doing the stationary bike starting at a blank wall peloton. Way more fun, way more engaging. So it's kind of cool to say the same thing and maybe it gives you something to do and a reason to train.
Speaker 3:I dig it, I'm all in Now. If I remember correctly, the handsets for these are significantly cheaper than, say, things like a staccato in real life. Yeah, so that's another aspect. You can test out new guns.
Speaker 2:Yeah, $199 for the handset and then it's a membership for the VR app, so it's $14 a month annually. It's kind of like think of like a gym membership for shooting skills and you'll like I was like man that's like less than a case of nine mil that you know I can go through and arrange it, but let's figure this out here.
Speaker 1:What do we get? Let me get the calculator out here, because you know I'm with my last job I had. I was afforded the opportunity to be able to shoot as much as I want.
Speaker 3:But it was 40 caliber.
Speaker 1:I wasn't really shooting the weapon systems I would use when I'm competing or I would carry in real life, because my everyday carry is either a Glock 43X or a P365. But let's figure this out. What do we think At $22 a box? And I like to. In me, I'm a lot different than normal people. I like to put in like two, three, 400 rounds a week if I can. So 22 bucks a box at 50. You know what? Am you do the math? I can't do math. Anybody who knows me I know I don't do math.
Speaker 3:When you think about like a subscription-based, there's a wonderful thing called a calculator.
Speaker 1:Well, you can think about it right there 22 bucks is a box of ammo.
Speaker 3:Yeah, $2 is a box of ammo. Yeah, and then, how many rounds were you going through? How many boxes?
Speaker 1:Well, let's figure 1,200 a month 1,200 rounds. This math. Math sucks, I don't do math.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's Nemmo going for these days?
Speaker 3:Actually, that was my next question.
Speaker 1:Well, it depends, because here's the deal I can buy bulk ammo for about $14 a box.
Speaker 3:But normal, everyday people. When you go to the range and buy it, it's 22 28.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're looking about 700 a week for your average person. Oh my god, what am I doing?
Speaker 3:maybe I'm not putting that much oh, I mean, but that's I mean, it's a significant chunk of change. So then you're talking. You said 15 a month for a subscription, so you know, 12 months that's 180 bucks. And then you get your one time. Let's say 200 for that. So all in for like an entire year. You know you're what? What is that? 380?
Speaker 2:yeah, about 368, 367 for that.
Speaker 3:Less than what you would be spending in a month. Well, not everybody shoots like Jason does, but still. Ammo's hard to find sometimes and it is expensive, so I mean the cost savings is astronomical, not to mention when you start talking about how much more you get with reps and sets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the cool thing with VR is we can roll out these new stages and competitions. Every couple of weeks there's new content coming, you know. So it's kind of like it's constantly giving you something to chase, to pursue. Which is this great, great aspect about this, this tech here? So it has a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, while we're talking about tech and this and that, let's go to the way back machine. When this and that, right, let's go to the wayback machine when did you join a navy? I joined the navy back in 2005 okay, so tech was a lot different back then I mean, you were talking about phone error here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, this was like the razor flip. That was my big thing. When I got back from iraq in 2006, I was like I want the razor flip or whatever. Oh, it's best thing ever. It's like it's so modern.
Speaker 3:I would have held on to that phone if I could have, but it broke on me.
Speaker 2:I was in ROTC and they were issuing all midshipmen a Palm Pilot. That's what we're talking about. You know this idea of like, hey, this new technology might really be something. So you're right, we've come a long way. It's amazing how this stuff is advancing.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about your career. So you were like, hey, I want to join a navy because I just, you know the army's way too tough for me, or you know, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 3:I didn't let it. You know you're talking to two navy people and you're wearing an andrews and wilson's ball cap of course.
Speaker 2:Obviously we're nodding to the navy now you know, yeah, it's, my journey is pretty interesting. I wasn't one of those folks that, like, I knew from my first waking moment that this is what I always wanted to do. You know, I joined ROTC because a buddy of mine did it and it sounded kind of like an adventure. I was in a Boy Scout, seems kind of like that kind of stuff. Like, I'll check this out. And then my freshman year, third time I wore my ROTC uniform, 9-11 happened and all of a sudden it went from like, okay, this is during a time of war, this is going to be real. It really made me reflect on what I wanted to do and if I was going to join the Navy, what would I want to serve as.
Speaker 2:And I had the blessing of having a Navy SEAL speak to our ROTC unit a few months later and it really was this epiphany or what. What he's saying really resonated with me deeply in a way that I felt like that is what I feel called to do. Like that, uh, that challenge really uh motivated me to get up early, stay up late train pursues before all the books and movies are out, and so I really felt like I was hungry to learn more about it. And uh, again, during time where I thought I'm going to serve, I really want my service to be meaningful and I want to feel like I'm making an impact. So it's kind of the one thing led to another and that's what led me to to join. And again, I was fortunate to get through SEAL training without being injured, any of those type of things. And then and then 2005 is when I started- Jose, we were better off for having you.
Speaker 3:You're definitely one of the good ones.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that. I mean, it's definitely. It's a humbling honor to be part of that brotherhood. You know it's some amazing guys, some of the best teammates you could ever imagine, and they definitely pushed me to be better and yeah, it was a wonderful experience.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I always liked that you actually got to live in some shit for a while too.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was fun yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the thing it's like. When you deploy and you go everywhere else, you get to look inside your brain more than you ever had before. It's not just about the austere environments and stuff, but it's the lonely periods, it's the. I can only talk so much shit with this group of people. I'm going to go back to my hooch and you're going to be in your head a lot.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I mean, some of us are pretty talented shit talkers, so I mean we, we can make that last. She's wonderful. Yep, she's definitely talented.
Speaker 2:But you're right, it definitely helps you reflect on what matters in life and and the bigger things you know also did was every time I came back from deployment I had a great appreciation for America and just this gratitude for our country in ways that I took for granted before that. And you just and realize how it doesn't have to be this way, how it really was a gift that we've inherited from those before us and it's a wonderful country, despite all its flaws.
Speaker 1:Well, this product you have here is on a cusp of like it's going to be there. I mean, it's there already, but it's going to push on farther. A lot of people are transitioning out of the military. A lot of them they think about hustles. They don't really think about the work they put into it. So what advice do you have for someone who's about to embark on something? Keep it small, keep it niche laser, focus in on something or have like 10 different side hustles. What's your advice for someone transitioning into a business world?
Speaker 2:You're saying come from the military. Yes, from the military. Yeah, well, the first thing is maybe, I guess, a word of caution is that it may feel lonely at times, because, you know, I think I realized when I got out is that the military is more than a job, it's an identity and it's a community. It's very difficult when you don't have that day in, day out and you realize how much you benefit from having people that understand you and can relate to you. And so I think finding community, finding those that can relate on that level, is going to be important so you don't feel totally lost. And then the next thing would be is find a passion or something that helps you look forward, and something that gets you out of bed, that gets you excited.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes there's a sense of like, well, the best days are behind me, and that just leads to, I think, you know, a lot of not great things, a lot of looking back, as opposed to saying, like I can take all these wonderful experiences and these lessons I learned and apply it to serve my company, my community, get involved, give back, uh, but you make sure you fill in that tank, uh, with things that maybe the military had done before. Um, it could be a startup or it could be a corporation or other type of pursuit. It really depends on someone's situation. But whatever, whatever it is is like don't feel bad about trying to find something that is fulfilling and is purposeful and don't feel like, well, it's all behind me. This is going to be miserable, you know, and it may not be your job, but but make sure you do those things.
Speaker 2:I think there's this ethos of service in the military that so many organizations could benefit from. They all tell me this too, and they they say like we love veterans for this reason, because they bring something in a perspective. So I guess one is recognize those gifts too. I think it's easy to look at like I don't know anything People are smarter than me, forget it, I'm never going to move up as opposed to seeing like what you have as a strength and benefit, all this intuition. You've experienced experience that they just don't have, and they're like. They're looking at you like help me understand that learning. Like wait a minute, why I don't know?
Speaker 3:Like but, but. It is a gift and it's something that really can contribute to any, any community. I don't think anybody could possibly say it better than that it's like that always is.
Speaker 1:The big thing is finding your community and taking what you've learned and applying it. Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't have to be the end state either. You know, whatever your next thing is, it doesn't. Because me, I've transitioned a bit since I've had a million different transitions over the years my last big one was retirement and I took my firearms instructor job as a contractor just because I'm like I want to learn how to be an instructor, like full-time with police. I've been an instructor before, but now I want to learn. So I'm like, yeah, now I'm moving on to something else. So I mean, it doesn't have to be the be all, end all that's right.
Speaker 2:I think the thing is, you realize, everyone transitions at some point from the military, but then in life, that's just the thing there's multiple of these transitions and not to look at it as um, it's okay, that's difficult, it's and it's it's definitely normal, I think that to go through those I, you know I can't rule out what we're who we have on the show this week too is am I mean?
Speaker 1:think about this way. You have you self-published your book, you're an indie author, published this week. You're interviewing all over the place, but you're doing it. You had a dream and you're doing it. So you've had different transitions. Now you're, you're becoming a screenwriter. So I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be business, but finding a new mission, absolutely finding a new mission.
Speaker 3:Something that appeals to you and you find your community. I found other people were just as crazy as me in the writing community and that works for me. So that is a big thing and I couldn't agree with Connor more on that.
Speaker 1:Crazy or creative. That's the thing. Yeah, Now Connor, you've stumbled, Everybody has stumbled, I've, geez, I know I've stumbled. What is something you would caution people Like what like you when you stumble?
Speaker 2:you're like I do give up on that, or what gets you through it Like say, hey, you know what I need to readjust, reevaluate and just keep moving on yeah, I mean, I think, um, having some people in your corner that believe in you has been important to me and my my wife is certainly on that list and then other mentors of mine who can look beyond that.
Speaker 2:It gives him perspective, uh things, he's get wrapped up my own head when I stumble, um, and I think just maintaining that degree of humility, you know I think there's. Sometimes you get this view of like, oh, I'm a, I'm a veteran, I did all these great things. You know it looks horrible if I fail and allowing myself to to make mistakes and realize there's not something I need to live up to out there. But I think the main thing is you're trying to immediately get back up and try to do something positive to get the momentum going. You know, sometimes you can be like, ah, how are we going to start here, you know. But you know, trying to get some momentum, heed those voices, people in your corner that believe in you, get some perspective and keep taking at least one step at a time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and say, yeah, you're also fortunate, your wife is amazing, so that's really kind of all you need there, but yeah, in your quarter yeah, you know I.
Speaker 1:I gotta stop you guys both right there. I did not. I'm going through your website as we're talking here. I like to kind of do a bunch of zombies yeah, zombies, come on bro.
Speaker 2:Yes, so think about this is everything. You shoot an ace, you've got to have side alignment, trigger, squeeze the fundamentals. But why can't we have some fun with this? Because, even if someone's grinding, every once in a while they want to do something fun. We heard some people tell us like, hey, I'm a competitive shooter, you know I'm training for work, but you know, once in a while I like to do something fun. And like, even I want to zone out for a little bit, but you still have to, you know, shoot clearly.
Speaker 2:So we put something like this in. It's amazing how popular it is. Um, you know, we don't have any human targets, you don't shoot other players. This is not supposed to be glorifying violence. But we thought, well, let's do things, you can have fun. We have drones, you can shoot. We had zombies. We got this like whack-a-mole thing. Uh. So again, there's there's things to change it up and make it fun. Things are hard to do in real life. So again, you got the core skills. You got fun things. Why not? Everyone likes to hit zombies, come on.
Speaker 3:Completely agree. I'm assuming this is a thing, but they were shooting steel targets there, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You hear the steel. Oh yeah, you hear everything. It's crazy. It's satisfying that satisfying, isn't it?
Speaker 2:that's right. That's right. You gotta have that, you're right. They're still falling down the feedback and these people lack a lot of. You drive fires or simulators like I did it, hit the thing, or not right? We got this in score screen that as you go through it racks up and has this like cha-ching sounds. Every like do you like bronze server goes like cha-ching and guys tell like that's so satisfying hearing that screen, like I'm just doing it. Then we have fireworks. If you have a new high score for for a couple days it was, uh, not working. But people emails back like hey, excuse me, um, I didn't hear my fireworks. I really am counting on that. Every time I get a new high score, like I get, get them the fireworks back. These people, man, celebrate the success. So, yeah, it's cool. You can make it fun like that in uh, in vr I've got to get one of these meta quests.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, you don't have one.
Speaker 1:No, I don't.
Speaker 3:I say I have a. I never really used mine. It would be a battle between my husband and my kids, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean they're cool. It's amazing. People are like, hey, do I need to hook up my TV? I'm like download the app, like you would your phone, or like, think about this like a, like a video game console, like everything's in there, and you get all those other fitness apps, things of that nature, and the prices keep coming down, which is great. You get the quest 2 for I think uh it's 200, up to the high-end quest 3 for 4.99 and there's a 3s in between. It's about 300 bucks. Uh, really nice picture on all of them, good resolution, uh it cool. Technology's come a long way for sure.
Speaker 3:I can't remember. Are you compatible with all of them?
Speaker 2:All three of those. Yeah, the Quest 2, the MetaQuest 3, the MetaQuest 3S that just came out, yep, all the latest models.
Speaker 1:Well, there goes my piggy bank again.
Speaker 2:There you go, christmas time.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 3:Put it been good this year, cause Sam would be nice to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, well, I don't know about that. We'll, we'll see. Well, guys, I appreciate this conversation. Everybody, make sure you check out the ACE VR app and the headsets and everything else. It really checked this product out. And make sure you buy origin story by Amadare. It's out now on Amazon and everywhere else. And what's give now on Amazon and everywhere else, and give us a quick synopsis of that and everybody, if you have, I mean obviously, if you're just tuning in, for Connor AM has a background, so I do want to give you, like I want you to use your three minutes to say hey, this is me, this is what we got going on, because it wouldn't be fair just to kind of the glaze over. Oh, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:It's totally fair. Connor deserves all the accolades he can possibly get because this is amazing and he's awesome. But this perfect proof origin story's perfect proof that, yes, I found my brand of crazy when I got out, because my story's about a woman who wakes up in prison with no memory of who or what she is Come to find out her name is Elise Tyson and she is a serial killer, or she was. The attack that put her in a coma also wiped out everything that she was, but not what she did. And now she is in prison. Another inmate wants to see her dead and the courts believe her amnesia is a ploy for leniency in their upcoming death penalty case. So her only choice is to agree to be studied by a psychologist who specializes in psychopaths and hopes that she can prove she's no longer a threat. But as the study goes on, it becomes clear there is more to her story than anybody knew.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Now, Connor, where are we going to find you at?
Speaker 2:I'm going to be on LinkedIn I'm not on the other social media, but Conor Donnie on LinkedIn and then, as you mentioned, acexrcom is where our product is. Acexrcom, as you can find our bodies.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, I appreciate you two.
Speaker 2:Good to be with you, Jason. Thanks a lot.
Speaker 3:Great seeing you, as always.
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