The Protectors® with Jason Piccolo
The original The Protectors® podcast, established in 2019, is about resilience, reinvention, and the moments that change the direction of our lives.
Hosted by retired federal agent, U.S. Army veteran (OIF 2006), author, and interviewer Dr. Jason Piccolo, the show explores what happens after service, success, failure, burnout, loss, transition, and personal transformation.
Through conversations with veterans, leaders, athletes, entrepreneurs, and everyday people who chose a new path, The Protectors® focuses on growth, identity, purpose, and the courage to move forward.
Jason also interviews both bestselling and independent authors, exploring the creative process, the writing journey, the challenges of publishing, and the stories behind the books. From debut novels to works by New York Times bestselling authors, these conversations offer insights into storytelling, perseverance, and success.
These are conversations about second chapters, hard-earned wisdom, and finding meaning after life changes course.
Whether you’re rebuilding, redefining yourself, chasing something new, launching a new venture, writing your first book, or simply trying to move forward, The Protectors® is about navigating change with resilience and purpose.
The Protectors® with Jason Piccolo
511 | Mike & Keith The Gun Experiment Podcast | Behind the Mic
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The Gun Experiment podcast hosts, Mike and Keith, join the show. From Mike's initial spark of interest in podcasting during the pandemic to Keith's hesitant yet rewarding leap into co-hosting.
Gun ownership carries both passion and responsibility, and this episode brings that duality to the forefront. With candid discussions on the intricacies of gun laws and the societal perceptions that shape them, we tackle controversial topics head-on. This episode underscores the critical importance of training, safety, and education in navigating today's complex firearm landscape.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
Gun Experiment Podcasting Journey
Speaker 1let's talk guns . We got mike and heath here from the gun experiment podcast . I've been on their show before . Was that episode 104 ? 204 ?
Speaker 2you had a better memory than me , bro . Yeah , we lost . Looking at it today , I was like I believe me .
Speaker 1I know you guys are gonna be like episode five something . Hey , welcome to the show guys . It's great to have you on and we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics guns nice guns inviting us appreciate being on now . You guys have had a podcast for a while the gun experiment you've had . You just had john norris on . John's been on a show before a couple times .
Speaker 3He's really good , dude man what an interesting story his , uh , his tale is yeah , that I think the most impressive part of for me was that visual of that mount wall behind him was outstanding .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I'm sure you've seen that all his uh mounts from his hunts he's going out there , too , when he's getting it yeah , I could .
Speaker 3I just was fascinated by it .
Speaker 1I could just hang out in there probably for a day hearing stories you know , between the shooting thing and then the knife thing , because john had the v knife . Yeah you know it works with those guys , so I had that . That's my first real hand injury in years as I was cutting some zip ties with that knife . And it is sharp , man , I'm not going to lie . It's a very well-made knife and it does what it's supposed to do . It goes deep into skin tissue .
Speaker 2Don't underestimate it .
Speaker 1It breaks the skin , no problem at all , john . Big shout out to you with that one man . So , guys , why'd you get into podcasting ?
Speaker 2so the story is uh , many , many years ago when , like , podcasting was really , really new you're probably talking , I guess , 20 years or more uh , I was commuting to work with a guy and he was like , oh man , I'm starting to listen to these podcasts and I was like what's that ? And he's like it's like people just like their own radio station , basically , and I'm like that's kind of cool and I thought it was a cool idea and I was like I should do that . But I was younger and singular and had other things to do and I just it always was in the back of my mind and then , as life changed and you know , I just kind of it was always there . And then COVID happened and I just was like , if I'm ever going to do this , like I'm sitting around with all this extra time on my hands , I can't go anywhere and I started looking into it and I was like you know , I said I'm just going to buy a cheap mic and I'm going to do this , and I think guns would be a cool topic to do it .
Speaker 2I I'm passionate about it . I don't think I'd get bored of talking about them . And I was like I need a guest . I'm like who could I call for a guest ? And then I was like Keith , you want to be a part of a podcast or anything like that .
Speaker 3But as Mike is describing , I did the first episode with him and we joked that that's never actually aired . I don't even know if we recorded it to be perfectly honest .
Speaker 2I do have a recording of it . It's never aired and I always say someday someone will get to hear it , but it's not .
Speaker 3It's not today , not today . And after that he asked me if I wanted to co-host the podcast with him here , and I again said I don't think so , maybe for some period of time . And now , four years later , I'm here For the longest time .
Speaker 2every time he would leave the house he would go . I'd be like you liking this and he'd be like , yeah , I like it till I don't like it , and when I don't like it , I'll I'll peace out on you and I . And I would say to my wife I'd say I hate when he says that because I think he likes it , but he can't give me the satisfaction of letting me know he likes it . And , like you said , four years later , here we are .
Speaker 3Yeah , and , and I guess you know , while we're talking about it , I the the big thing for me was time . You know it was always time , it's always time . So you know , I I've got a ton of hobbies besides this and it's , you know , every time you add a new hobby you got to give up on shuffle around another hobby .
Speaker 2So between that and , you know , trying to make a living , Although you've credited the show of getting you in more than you've ever been .
Speaker 3That is 100 percent true . I've had to give up other hobbies besides getting into podcasting since the show .
Speaker 2So got a second and third job , yeah , a couple of loans .
Speaker 3Yeah , you start buying Nighthawks and it gets , gets , oh geez .
Speaker 1Don't even that's like a , that's like the Ferrari of guns over here .
Speaker 2It is . Keith has one , it's . It's pretty sweet .
Speaker 3We had those guys on early and , uh , I don't know I became . I really enjoyed the story there , their story and as we joke about on the podcast , I I have some fun in me . So I , I love a 1911 and you know 45 and , like you said , what's what ? There's only a few others that are up there at that level with with Nighthawk , no-transcript trip , a vip or anything . I I bought a thunder ranch . You know the entry , nighthawk , was it still like two or three grand , right five ?
Speaker 3uh yeah , I don't , I think it was oh , come on .
Speaker 3I think it was like 3800 , okay , and then I sent it back for the interchangeable optic system that they have , so that was like another 800 bucks , and then I couldn't bring myself to only put a holosun on it , so I had to be bougie and put an rmr on it . Well , of course , well , of course , right , well , of course , right , but I run it . I've actually done some pretty crazy things with that gun at Testament Tonight , including shooting , including shooting a .40 caliber out of it .
Speaker 1It was pretty impressive .
Speaker 3And I didn't blow it apart . I hit the target too .
Speaker 2You know , I think so you can shoot the wrong caliber and not blow up your gun .
Speaker 1I keep hearing so much about staccatos and this and that the highest-end pistol I have is I have a Wilson Combat EDCX9 . Okay , are they cool ? I love it . It's a great gun . Yeah , but I still need a .45 , man . Yeah , I've had the 6 Scorpion 1911 for years , probably about 10 , 12 , 15 years now . I love scorpion um 1911 for years , probably about 10 , 12 , 15 years now . I love it , it's a great gun , but I still I really there's something about in 1911 man , I'm tiny .
Speaker 3I agree , the trigger is just unmatched right , there's like nothing else out there like it .
Speaker 2It really I mean , well , it's , it's the trigger that all other triggers are measured by right , I think .
Speaker 3So yeah , uh , you mentioned staccato . I mean , I don't know , I I'm not as impressed with them as since they've gone so I , stylistically , I'm a more modern .
Speaker 2I'm definitely not a fun and uh , so I like the 2011 styling a little bit better .
Speaker 3Um , I like the the grip look better than like the individual scales the idea that you could carry more than eight , but you really can't because of where we live .
Speaker 2Yeah , exactly yeah , for those that are listening , we live deep , deep behind enemy lines in new york state , and so we're limited .
Speaker 1We're limited suck , I uh . I love the 1911 , I love 45s , I do , I've you . I've yet to shoot a double stack 45 .
Speaker 3I haven't shot one of those yet either , but I just so . Who just came out with one ? Did we just talk to somebody ?
Speaker 2What is that ?
Speaker 3A double stack 1911 . Somebody that just built Primary .
Speaker 1Was it not ? Who was the old school maker that had a double stack 1911 ? I don't know it . I don't know who the old school and it was like . I think it was a double single Prodigy . I'm talking about 15 .
Speaker 3No it has a double stack , but I was somebody else we're talking like 15 , 20 years now .
Speaker 1Hmm , Uh , this is like stumped a gun experiment guys . Yeah .
Speaker 3I did a quick Google search . Cabot makes a double stack .
Speaker 1I was just saying uh , Cabot makes a double stack , Cabot's a little more money .
Speaker 3Oh , this one's only $711 . This has got to be the one , so it's who is making this ? Let's see we are in a ad , of course , because that's the way it has to be , don't make me start Googling this , guys .
Speaker 1You guys should have this in the top . How do you pronounce ?
Speaker 3that T-I-S-A-S ? No , because this is old school .
Speaker 1So the it's not palmetto . I know that .
Speaker 3Oh , double stack this is a new one that uh callie and noire review .
Speaker 2I was gonna say I I didn't think that that's a 19 . I mean , I'm not saying it's common , but I didn't think there was like no one doing it in fact no , no , there's only a few of them . There's not not many of them out there , but I haven't even talked to you about this , keith , but um , I was in frank's shop . This is our friend who's our local ffl and buddy who's been on the show , and um , he had a . Have you seen the voodoo priest ?
Speaker 2no , I haven't seen it yet so the voodoo priest voodoo is , you know it's , it's their , it's their own 2011s , but this is them . That is a pretty good and that's pretty . Yeah , they're pretty , pretty sweet , looking like ah man , everything . He shows me something .
Speaker 3I'm like I'm gonna have to walk away with something well , that's the problem with him is like you get , you get there and uh , he helps you spend your money real quick .
Speaker 1He's a good salesman I , you know I've been , I've been up in the air with everything I carry . You know , when I started doing competition I picked up that walther pdp . I liked it but it's too light for me . I tried the the low grips , uh backstraps on it . I tried adding weight here and there through different means , whether it be on the mags or whatever , but it just it's too light for me . Then I went over . Then I was like you know everybody in competition shooting um optics . I'm like you know what ? I gotta go old school iron sights 45 , that's why I use a scorpion . And now I , you know , I have a not really a stock but I picked up a glock 17 , gen 3 or 4 . I threw an overwatch precision , I think that's the trigger I put on it and some fiber optic sights on it and the thing shoots awesome man , yeah . And you know obviously all the scenes and everything else .
Speaker 2Yeah , what was it ? I mean , how many people compete with them ? Like plenty of people . Yeah , you know you . And pound for pound , you know , dollar for dollar , you can't beat the price .
Speaker 1And then the other thing is I'm like , okay , I've had this sick for edc . Now you know , I've had a sick 365 um , that's , that's .
Speaker 3My primary carry is a 365 .
Speaker 2That's , yeah , that's primarily what I carry .
Speaker 3And in the winter time when I can wear some bulky clothing clothing , I will . I will carry the 1911 , but that's cause I'm a fat ass and I can get away with it .
Speaker 2So I carry primarily in these days I carry a nine millimeter shadow systems MR920 . So basically a Glock , you know . So basically a Glock , it's a Glock .
Speaker 1Yeah , like a Glorify .
Speaker 2It's a bougie Glock that has a holes ? Huh , it does . And then I , when I want something smaller , I do a 365 XL Kind of like you .
Speaker 1I did the 365 , but then I put the Wilson lower on it and I changed out the trigger .
Speaker 1I think it had a Carbo trigger on it , okay . But then you know , I went to my my son's football game about three or four weeks ago and I won the 50 50 raffle , okay , and you know what happens when you win something like that the money's burning all the parts no , it wasn't parts . I was like you know what I really want to try a glock 43x . I bought a glock 43X MOS and I'm like , and then I didn't realize , shield , this company named Shield makes 15-round mags work .
Speaker 2Yeah , I saw that . I know they have them .
Speaker 1So I was like , yeah , I'll try it and I love the gun man . It's a sweet little gun .
Speaker 2Are they reliable ?
Speaker 1So far , so good , okay . One thing I've noticed , though , is that gun is very finicky . When it comes to cheap ammo , yeah , that happens , very finicky . And the reason I went to the Glock was because , at the time I just ended that job , I was an FI for a big department out here and they were carrying Glocks . So I'm like , okay , I want everything Glocks . I know everything about Glock , blah , blah , blah . And so I'm like , okay , I want everything glocks , I know everything about glock , blah , blah . And so I gotta try the 43x , because these the department's using clock 22s , 40s . I'm like , yeah , you know , I'll just stick around to the glocks and everything's the same , same blah , blah . I like it , it's a decent gun . I still like my 365 . I like , once in a while , I'll throw a little five shot revolver in the pocket are you more of a rifle or a pistol guy , like if you had to choose ?
Speaker 1pistol . Okay , I mean , if I had to choose I would choose rifle , but obviously , yeah , I love pistols , man , yeah I .
Speaker 2I would say me too , I would say pistols . I like I .
Speaker 3I understand the functionality is it , is it the run and gun question rifle pistol shotgun or is it ? What question are you ?
Speaker 2asking um , I'm just , I'm not asking the run and gun question . So , run running gun obviously was the game that you played when you were on with us . I don't remember , but I'm assuming pistol . Um , no , I'm not asking that question . So what ? Yeah
Discussion on Gun Laws and Ownership
Speaker 2, I'm not , I just . I think I I shoot pistol more , I'm more familiar with pistol .
Speaker 3I run a pistol . Well , what I shoot the most is shotgun . Yeah , but that's the fun of me , you know I just oh , I love , love oh you know what shotguns , man ?
Speaker 1they're just I love shotguns man , I love a shotgun . You give me like a , a mossberg 500 around , yeah , and I got this uh years ago . I'm so bad , I go to pick up what I forget what I was picking up . But I picked up something . I'm like , oh , look , there's a mossberg uh 930 JM and I was like , okay , I'm in . Oh man , I'll take it . It was a thing like nine or 10 shots . I love it , man .
Speaker 2What are ? The gun laws like in Virginia .
Speaker 1They're not that bad , no , no .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean like I said .
Speaker 1But I started thinking about , like my trips to New York and stuff about that's . The other reason I got the Glock 43 X2 is because I'm like , okay , I'm retired LEO , so I don't really have the same caveats as I did as a full time sworn fed .
Speaker 1So I was like you know I better get something where I could go down to the 10 round mags , and that's why I even , you know , so I have a couple six shot revolvers , stuff like that . So I have a couple of six shot revolvers , stuff like that , cause I'm like , okay , when I travel , now I need to be cognizant of the state gun laws as well , which I don't you know . Yeah , you can't make up some of these laws , man .
Speaker 3I always find it so interesting . You know that they we have lawmakers that actually make laws without researching what they're saying without knowing that what they're saying is true is real or not . The one that came up in conversation recently for me was New Jersey the hollow point law . You know not being able to carry hollow points .
Speaker 2It makes no sense . It makes no sense . It's actually counterintuitive to safety . Right Right Like oh no , we want you to carry , we want you to over-penetrate we want you to carry , we want you to over penetrate .
Speaker 3We want you to over penetrate , yeah , over penetrate and potentially not stop the threat I mean , I grew up a lot of my life wanting to over penetrate , but this is not not one of the tmi bro tmi this is not one of those situations .
Speaker 1Well , you know what they have . Yeah , the thing about laws nowadays too is it's , I think , gun laws are going to know how to shoot a gun . Two , they bought a gun and want to know how to shoot a gun . Or three , they need to know someone has a gun . The gun thing is like okay , everybody wants one , everybody needs one . It doesn't matter if it's going to be for harvesting or you just want a sports shoot or whatever . But the primary idea is that look , when you live in the middle of nowhere or you live in a city , the response time is the police are never going to get there in time , never .
Speaker 2The problem I have , or the problem I think we run into , is , you know , anytime there's one of these mass shootings , you know if it bleeds , it leads right , the media covers it to , you know , to the end of time basically , and it tugs on people's heartstrings , you know . And so anytime that happens , like I know so many people , I know even gun owners , I know , you know people who would vote Republican and and say , and I'm a gun owner , but no one needs an AR-15 , right , but no one needs more than 10 rounds . But you know , and so that's the problem is like I kind of agree , I think we actually are leaning more towards . We just we literally just did an article last week on the show where we were talking about how there are more Democrats buying guns but even they don't feel comfortable in their circle saying they're a gun owner . They'll be , you know , uh , you know chastised for , for you know how dare you go and buy a gun ?
Speaker 1you know , but they'll you know . But then I have them coming up to me and be like hey , can you give me a class on it ? So let's speak .
Speaker 3Oh yeah , you know I guess it's good that they want to get training . Oh for sure you know you can't be upset about that . No , I'm not you and I'm not saying you , jason , I'm just saying in general , like you know , I think any of us are happy to see a new gun owner seek out training , training , oh yeah
The American Way
Speaker 3absolutely .
Speaker 1You know , the problem with politicians is this they they are in a crazy echo chamber where they they listen to some voices on social media and all of a sudden they need to make that law . I mean , when you think about 320 million people in the us or plus I don't even know what the last count was and how many of them are adults when you're watching mainstream media they might be getting two or three million views on the news . When you look at these social media accounts , you know they have a thousand replies , or let's say they have a hundred thousand replies . The main snapshot of America is not showing up on social media and a main snapshot of America is not watching mainstream media . They , the constituents out there , aren't the , the they're . They're not showing their voice on social media .
Speaker 3That's an interesting thought . When you put it the numbers right , they're not interacting . The interaction is low .
Speaker 2Well , I wonder if people just consume headlines like we talk about all the time I think they consume headlines and I also think that if you , you know , like what you're saying with those numbers , they don't really need to have everybody right , they just need to basically get . Really , when you think about it , there's people who are encamped on the left , there's people who are encamped on the right . They're really just trying to like split really , when you think about it , there's people who are encamped on the left , there's people who are encamped on the right . They're really just trying to split up that middle part .
Speaker 1They're trying to have the loudest voice .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And that's what social media is like Blah , blah , blah , blah blah . I'll cancel you this and that .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 1But the reality is , for me , the firearms instructor portion is this . Instructor portion is this I'll teach you how to fire up . I'll teach you how to shoot a gun .
Speaker 1I mean obviously I'm going to vet you , right , but uh , because I don't want to teach . You know , I've had some people like I want to learn . I'm like I don't think you should , I don't think you should be anywhere near a gun . And then there's people where I'm like you know what , safety wise , the reality of firearms is , like some people believe that a firearm is in a room , it's just going to go off . It's a reality . You and I , we've all grown up with firearms . You know , in one way or the other , and they just think that the firearm is going to go off . So I believe in like safe instruction , I believe in family safety . I think , even if your kids will never shoot that gun , they need to be aware of it , cognizant of it , cause if you have a firearm in your house , the kids are going to find it . I don't care what if you have a four knots , they're going to find it , they're going to find a way to get into that safe . They always do right .
Speaker 2I mean for me , I don't know the the idea of a firearm to me , just it provides this sort of sense of independence , right , like you mentioned before about , you know , using it for game , for , you know , for going after game , and it's just like with a firearm , you can protect yourself without that long response time of police . With a firearm you can provide for your family if you need to . You know , with a firearm , in theory , right Like the the initial purpose of the second amendment , you know you should be able to keep a tyrannical government in check . So those things it's sort of I think Keith and I have talked about this before it's the American way . We are a nation found on independence and we don't really like being told what to do and a firearm sort of allows you a little bit of that independence .
Speaker 1If you ever look at history , you know . Think about the . The firearm is there not just to harvest , it's there to protect . It's there to right , like you said , take on a tyrannical government . It's there because you know what there are . There are so many people living in bubbles that they don't realize that there are really bad people out there . There are really bad people out there . I had are really bad people out there .
Speaker 3I had an interesting thought around this topic recently it was either today or yesterday and it was what if the loudest voice that we hear today , which is this anti-gun movement I feel like that's the loudest voice we hear we're getting some movement on the Second Amendment . I'm not trying to say that we're not organized and loud enough , but you know we lost ground right Mainstream , definitely the mainstream media is projecting that .
Speaker 3So my the thought was what if that side had won world war two or was present when world war two happened ? We'd be speaking German , you know , like we would if you have , if that's the mindset that we go forward with in this country we're going to be in some trouble .
Speaker 2Well , I think part of the problem is , I mean , I was just reading a thing today . It was actually about New York and it was about them trying to cut a business deal with Taiwan , and it was like it has nothing to do with a Chinese spy . That was in their office and I'm like we're just so intertwined with other countries and it's all about , like you know , how they can take care of themselves . Politicians is what I'm talking about , and I just think that there was . Those times were different . When you talk about like we've talked about this before like JFK was a Democrat , but he wasn't a Democrat like today's Democrats .
Speaker 3No .
Speaker 2Right , and I think that people , how dare you . I think guns back then were just , they were just more like oh , they were everywhere .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean they were teaching in schools . You know , you know , man , I'm not going to get into politics because I can go into this whole spiel about the military-industrial complex and all sorts of other stuff . But yeah , you know , when it comes to farms , you're not going to go anywhere . You can try to confiscate them , but the problem is there's a billion of them out there , a billion , and so many bad people have them , so many . And once you start stripping guns away from the normal people or people voluntarily give them up which you should never do then there will be problems and once the violence comes out again , then even the law-abiding citizen will become outlaws . They'll be the ones buying the illegal guns and stuff like that .
Speaker 1But when it comes to the 2A community , I mean you and I and we all love shooting , because to me a firearm isn't just to take a life , it's not just for protection , it's that there's something about it . It's like some people love cars , you know some people like the ferraris , the corvettes , the camaros or whatever , but , like you , we were talking about before we hit record , or about these arrow precision guns and , like me , I've built them before and it's almost like the lego sets for men . Yeah , you know what ? Let me take that back the lego sets for shooters , because there are so many women shooters now . Yeah , but it's like my new , it's like a lego set man . I love those guns . I love what they're doing with them .
Building ARs With Arrow
Speaker 1I've been a big fan of Arrow . I know you guys have fans for probably I don't know how many years now , man .
Speaker 2So my first AR I ever built was actually a Stag and there's a long story behind that . But now Stag and Arrow are together and then the next one I built was actually an Arrow . So I've long liked that company company and I like the fact that they're so into like letting people build . Yeah , you know that their focus is on billy . They they now offer pre-made firearms , you know pre-built , but their their core , their business , was around builder sets and I just that's so cool , you know I , you know , I've been , I do the , uh , I've been the arrow blem guy forever .
Speaker 3Oh yeah , I've done that for a couple guns from you . Ever heard of bagheera ? No , they're . They do um , you know hunting rifles precision precision rifles , stuff like that . They well when you buy bl it's not so bad .
Speaker 3I bought a well , I don't remember what model a premiere , it was a braguera premiere and it was a uh 30 odd six like a remington 700 barreled action . And then I bought a used wood stock because I'm a fud and I uh , you know , made this , put this thing together and put a diamond trigger in it and you know , there you go . But blems are the way to go , I think you know . Um , what triggers do you use ?
Speaker 1rise armament . Okay , yeah , and I got , man . I have everything's rise armament around here . I love it , man .
Speaker 2I've never had a problem with them yeah , and they're such a smooth , just a quick action for the ars my last one was a trigger tech , and that was yours too .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , huh , you ever tried them ? No , I mean , I tried timney and I tried rise . Uh , what else I tried pistol , wise overwatch okay they got all different levels , like any place .
Speaker 3You know , some of them are adjustable , some of them are not .
Speaker 2They got , you know , different style um trigger surfaces yeah , curved flat all that stuff , but I like them how long are you doing the same thing ?
Speaker 1you guys are , because I just got the solos , I got a six , five creed . More of the competition one .
Speaker 2That's what actually that trigger in that is a is a trigger tech . Okay , yeah , that's a trigger tech . So if you like it , you'll know trigger techs .
Speaker 3Now I got another one to add to your list , another brand , oh christ man , my , my pocketbook I'm gonna have to get another job yeah , so how often does Arrow offer the blems ? You just got to search for them , or are they ?
Speaker 1Yeah , man , you go to . So you go to the Arrow website and I do it all the time , man . And because some of it's out of stock , some of it's not , but I've built everything from the , the Aaron , what are the ER 89 , whatever , edie's , my Wilson , the nine millimeter AR , I built the 308 I think I didn't do any blem on that because I just love that thing . I built it . Ar , 10 from them , yeah , um , but the a , I built a 300 blackout , which is mostly blem stuff and when people you have to realize blem is just blemished right , there's no mechanical anything .
Speaker 2There might be like a mini scratch on it I was gonna say a lot of times , the blem is like something that's not you can't see it , and that's the truth is .
Speaker 1I've I've bought the blam before and I've never seen anything wrong with it , right , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2And I I think if you , I'm pretty sure , if you join their like mailing list or whatever , they always send out emails like yeah , yeah , you know , with the blam's dropping , yeah basically , I think I don't know if it's the leo or they have a mill discount , I think , which is 10 or 15 , 20 .
Speaker 1They have elio discounts , I believe . They have all sorts of crap man they're already pretty good I mean I'm on there right now .
Speaker 3They got 36 items that are blams . Yeah , um , they got a soulless action . If you want almost half off , um , a couple of them actually and if you're into , like I said , if you're into the whole builders thing they do .
Speaker 2Well , that's what I love about it , man yeah well , they do these like builder sets , where they it's really cool what they do . When we had ryan on the show , we talked about it . Um , they send out like basically ceratote , cerakote companies , companies that like do custom , yeah they , they put in to be like this is our design , we'd like it considered . And then they pick what is it ? One a month , right , one a month . They pick 12 companies a year .
Speaker 2And there's a limited run , and when it's done , it's done . You're never going to get that one again .
Speaker 1That's my thing , you know . Let's not talk about Cerakote , because my problem is this Because they're like Lego sets , I'm always looking at these things , going huh and talk about FUD . I don't know where it was . I saw one the other day . It was like an AR platform .
Speaker 2FUD . You've almost seen FUD in the wild .
Speaker 1I've been messing FUDs all the time . I had LARPers , but the Woodstock AR-15s , they have this wood furniture on it . Have like this wood furniture on it .
Speaker 3I'm like how do you do that , man ? I want to do that next . It's like that is that would be . He's going to look it up right now . Yeah , they are 15 with wood furniture yeah , I think that'd be awesome .
Speaker 1Well , it's like the wood . I don't know if it's that lame in it or whatever yeah , you know there's a time and I'm still . I still love them , but uh , lever action guns but now with the hunting rifle 30 , 30 . I got a 30 , 30 got the 44s . Uh , four , what do I got ? A 30-30 . I got the 44s . What do I got ? A 45 ? No , I don't have a 45-70 . I have a 35 Remington .
Speaker 2So you know , Arrow's coming out with those right .
Speaker 1No .
Speaker 2Yeah , swear to God .
Speaker 1They're coming , they're coming .
Speaker 2It's a little more tactical looking . It's less slated . But yeah , they're coming .
Speaker 3I think they look pretty good . I actually like the tactical look of these .
Speaker 2Yeah , they're really cool looking Well , I have a Paracord and .
Speaker 1I have a Ranger Point Precision built out Henry 44 . Okay , so it's like the tactical type one . Yeah , I love lever actions , man . I think that there's a practical use for them . There really is . So what is that ? What is your thoughts on it ? So here's what I think you know . Mine's a 44 Magnum and it holds what nine or ten shots and it's hardly any kick at all . So what you're doing is you're putting a 44 caliber round dead spot where you need it to be and a distance that you need to be . So anywhere from , like what ? 50 to 100 meters .
Speaker 2Seriously .
Speaker 1If you're talking tactical and you're talking about , you know , a patrol carbine or something that you're going to be more , it's almost like working . You could work if you learn a lever action . You could work it just as good as a shotgun as far as reloading yeah , you know , it's funny .
Speaker 2You say that because when we , when we talked to those guys , that was one of one of the reasons why they were bringing first off there's definitely a little bit of hotness in that in the , in the industry , like those have taken off a little bit like tactical actions . But they said part of it was we wanted everybody to be able to own one and it's 50 state legal , so by having a lever action , everyone can have one . And to your point , jason , I think it's really , um , it's kind of cool because , yeah , there it is , it's , yeah it is , it's , yeah , it's really cool . It's really cool because you're putting , you know , a small caliber round into a rifle and so therefore you have that extra stability of a rifle .
Speaker 1But , like you said , there's , there's no yeah , but when you shoot one , when I shoot that thing , the 44 magnum yeah let's say you put a 300 grain bullet in that thing , a bear stopper , and you need to have or you have anything . You need to have penetration through a car door , you need to have penetration through steel barriers , you need to crack an engine block . I'm just overly . I don't know if I can or not . We should try it . But when you think about the precision you could have with that rifle too , listen , ars are great , but a 5.56 bullet compared to a 44 magnum round , right , and not every officer is going to be able to get out there with a 308 and take a precision shot . You know , because you're not everybody's going to be carrying a 308 , no , you , you , I mean I .
Speaker 3The biggest difference between those two examples there and 44 and 223 obviously is isn't speed , right , I mean , 223 is going to move a heck of a lot faster , but that 44 magnum is going to hurt I actually have a punch .
Speaker 2I actually I don't own one , but I actually think the 357 is a good caliber in that because you can shoot the 38s much cheaper . True , so you have the option of shooting . A good caliber in that because you can shoot the .38s much cheaper . True , so you have the option of shooting a more powerful round , but then you can also put the .38s in it and practice all day long . So that's kind of an interesting one .
Speaker 1But I'm trying to like for the . It depends on what your use is Like to me with the shotgun . You have the slug Right . You know the slug is going to be devastating . The slug is going to be devastating . You're going to be able to . You know you're going to use that for tactical purposes . You're going to be entering houses .
Speaker 3Don't tell New York that we're still allowed to have shotguns around here .
Speaker 2Yeah , Don't tell them about big scary slugs Jesus .
Speaker 1But you know what ? But if you look at the everyday usage , let's say it has to be and here's the thing you know coming off of be in an fi for a department you have to understand that everybody needs to be able to utilize whatever that that firearm is . So when you do say 357 , yeah , you can have a pretty , pretty plus p round in there or something like that , 38 plus p's , you could throw anything in there , yeah , and it's still going to be effective and there's not going to be any recoil right now you give a 40 , you give a 44 magnum uh rifle to 160 pound guy , 140 pound girl .
Speaker 1It's , it's going to be a kick . There's going to be a kick there and it might not be as prestigious . It's like when you give the , the Remington 870 to a cop and you give them a slug full power . That's why they started going to reduce recoil rounds .
Speaker 2Yep .
Speaker 1And that's why you know a lot of these departments don't realize that when you throw reduced recoil into semi-auto guns they don't always load , they don't reload . So that's why you know you have to take your pluses . I'm thinking , yeah , with a lever action .357, . You're thinking what ? Maybe 10 shots , one in the pipe ? I'm assuming , yeah , right , and when you have a shotgun you're lucky if you have five , maybe eight , yeah .
Speaker 3If you shoot a FUD over under too , yeah .
Speaker 1And you know you could do the Joe Biden . Oh my God , you have the side saddles on these things . Yeah , I mean I think you could work them just as good . Yeah , I mean , I like home , home for home protection , home defense is probably a little over over penetration penetration yeah , but a little too long for that that's a tough debate .
Speaker 3Whenever you get into it , you know , because there's no right answer . There is no right answer . There's so many deals .
Speaker 1I got a I got a winchester 44 ranger edition . Okay , the ranger , whatever they , who has a large loop on it and I'm like that thing's pretty short and that thing is like someone comes in a house boom , 44 magnum well , so we I mean again we've this is coming from just and the same as you .
Speaker 2You've talked to a lot of people that are , you know , professionals in this and they you know you're a lot of different opinions , but for the most part , right , if you're aowner , you're not really going around clearing your house .
Speaker 2And I can think of a few situations where maybe you do , but for the most part you're not going to . And , like I'll speak to my . You know my situation , keith , you're the same . You're actually in a better situation , um , but our houses , like all the bedrooms are upstairs , and so for me , you know , at the very the very least I'm going to have to get out of my room to go grab my kids and get them into one place . But other than that , like we're staying on the top floor and you're coming to me , and so I'm not so worried about the size of the gun , cause I'm not really going around corners or anything , barricading in a room and letting you come to me or don't come to me , and that's a good day for everybody . Yeah , you know , leave , right , that's right , leave , take the .
Speaker 1TV with you . You know what . You guys come in here , take the TV , I don't care , that's true . I mean , and you know , having any gun is the option , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , you know , you said about take the TV .
Gun Ownership and Safety Discussions
Speaker 2I did a um , uh , some munitions course a while back .
Speaker 3I remember the story now .
Speaker 2They , they send you , they put you through these different scenarios . The one scenario it was like a Cape Cod type house and they put me upstairs . They said , okay , like the scenario is your , um , you're in your bedroom and like you know you're , you have a gun in the night .
Speaker 3Yeah , Pretend right .
Speaker 2Pretend this is what's happening . All yeah , pretend right . Pretend this is what's happening .
Speaker 3All right , that was too much pretending .
Speaker 2There's a bump in the night , basically Someone's downstairs , and they're like , hey man . I'm like who's down there ? And they're like it's cold , man , I'm just cold . I'm coming in to get some heat . I'm like , well , you can stay as long as you want , get the heat , take the tv . I says well , because the tv is a lot cheaper than court fees .
Speaker 1So tv yeah , there's really it's listen , take whatever you want , don't fuck with my kids , don't mess with my family yep you know , and yeah , you know , that's to me is like you , that's a really valid point a firearm to get you from point point a to point b , to retrieve your kids , get somewhere where you could just hunker down and and hopefully , if 9-1-1 shows up they do they don't , but at least you're there and you have something you know barricade your door to take shots . I mean , because , believe me , any gun you have , from 22 on up , is going to penetrate sheetrock Right . And these like these , these hollowed outdoors , anything yeah , oh , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean you're talking . If you're in one side of your house and you go through the other , it's going to . It's going to go through every bit of sheetrock . The only thing that's going to stop it is if it hits a couple of studs , maybe , maybe .
Speaker 1You know , but that's luck , right . That's just . It has to . Just it's got 16 inches in between , that's right , so hopefully it slows down enough . Yeah , it's a branch on the way . Now me I . I typically go with the , the 300 blackout arrow precision with a red dot .
Speaker 3I'm just kidding . I love blackouts , man . Is that thing obnoxious to shoot or you enjoy ?
Speaker 1no , not at all . I love it man yeah , are you .
Speaker 2Are you suppressed ?
Speaker 1yeah , all right well , that makes sense , that makes sense .
Speaker 3Well , I can't like suppress , we're so far from being able to shoot something like what is that ?
Speaker 2we're suppressed as in we're not allowed to have ?
Speaker 1yeah , that's exactly our suppression so so who's your dream guest ? Let's get back to podcast oh , man dream guest and you know what I like to hear .
Speaker 3I would love for you to say not one of the everyday characters that everybody else always wants to talk to you okay , uh , I'm yeah , I mean I'm trying to think of some that we've already had that were like on my short list , like clint smith was definitely on he was yeah , he , that was a good one , I mean . Dream guest , not somebody crazy , I know who you want who ?
Speaker 2The . Author .
Speaker 3Oh , jack , carr , Jack Carr . Yeah , I mean , but that's like a that feels like a crazy one that people are probably always asking for . Yeah , you can just ask him .
Speaker 2Yeah , keith is a really big I . I . I just watched the show , but you read the books .
Speaker 3I've read every one of the jack reese books or james reese books . Um , I , uh , we've had a couple , uh , a couple guests that have connections to him . So I , I , I've , I've been able to , hopefully to get our name dropped a couple times .
Speaker 2So , yeah , no , but , and I and I've actually like listened to a lot of his interviews and he's just a down . Everyone says he's a down-to-earth guy yeah , he would definitely you've had him on before , right ? Yeah , I think he's been on six or seven times oh my goodness , yeah , yeah , I've heard he's really a really down-to-earth guy yeah , I had to have .
Speaker 1I get a . I had . I wish I knew , because I had a pinch hitter , the other , uh , pitch hitter . What do you call ? Is it pinch or pitch pinch , hitter , pinch ? Yeah , so I was out of out of the country a few weeks ago and I did a joint episode , so I had my buddy step in and and host the protectors , no nice .
Speaker 3So you guys could , you guys could have been there oh well , next time he's around and you need a bench , I'll uh , I'll be there .
Speaker 1Let us know . Who do you guys want on your show ?
Speaker 2I mean I know this is probably always there , but like we never had coleo noir no , but again I'm .
Speaker 3Jason stumped me with , like who would be somebody that isn't always said . I know that's where I got stumped , oh man I love everyday people man .
Speaker 2I love talking to normal people man . Yeah , I , I , I feel like I would want to have somebody .
Speaker 3I would . I I would like to have , like maybe somebody like the guy who stopped the mass shooting in Indiana , like something like that would be . That would be a good one .
Speaker 2Actually , you know which one I mean it's . I don't know how I would even approach the interview , but I have a lot of questions for Kyle Rittenhouse . Yeah , so , kyle Rittenhouse , that's one that I would like to .
Speaker 3But I feel like that's another popular one . Jason , I'm doing your job for you here . No comment .
Speaker 2No comment . I feel like he needs to be pressed a little bit , to be quite honest . Yeah , because I feel like he's on our side of the gun debate , but there's a lot of questions . What about an anti ? I was going to say Shannon Watts that was actually my .
Speaker 1Oh my God , I always forget . You guys like to get into that whole political sphere .
Speaker 3Well , we just like to .
Speaker 2We like to just kind of mix it up a little bit .
Speaker 1We're New Yorkers , that's true .
Speaker 2You are New Yorkers , we like conflict . Yeah , we , we relish in it .
Speaker 1That's how I love talking to new shooters too , man , I like to . I like to talk to people who , like you know , they pick up that gun for the first time and they're like , oh wow , this is not what I thought , this is . I like new shooters .
Speaker 2I like taking new shooters out . Sometimes talking to them is a little tough because they don't even know what they don't know and so they're trying to like that's where you come in , that's where you got to teach them , man . Yeah , but I I'm we've had this conversation on the show before I'm not a big proponent of like correcting and teaching , like I just kind of want them to kind of ease into the conversation , because nobody wants to be corrected and you know our industry tends to be a little pedantic . So the example we always use is the Cliff , first the magazine . You know , oh my God , you know believe me , there's haters everywhere .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And I even got hate today at one of my posts because I interviewed someone about the , the hurricane , and one of my one of these quote unquote friends was like well , you didn't promote my post . I'm like dude . But it's the same way when it comes to the gun industry . It's like , oh , you said clip . It's like bro , I'm just trying to help someone shoot .
Speaker 3We've gotten to take out a few new shooters for the first time and our MO is to take out a few new shooters for the first time , and you know , our , our MO is to give them a 22 and try to get them to ring steel at a hundred yards before they leave at the end of the day . And if they're doing that , you know , you know , I'm sure too , that the sound of steel , you know , hitting steel with any is addictive and you know it's , it's self gratifyingifying , it's instant , you know instant feedback .
Speaker 2Well , I know it's . It's amazing when , like that , we took one , a neighbor of ours who's very politically unaligned with us , and she was like I really wanted , I really want to shoot a gun . Would you guys take me ? Yeah , we'll take you . We took her out and the smile yeah , you know the smile , and it's like that was great . I did that . I can do this . Yeah , awesome , you know . Um , we have , you know , we have a few people who help us on the show . I have , um , this girl , alex , and she's uh , she's a bit younger , she's about to get married and she's she does all the behind the scenes stuff for the show and she , I took her out and she ranked steel at a hundred yards and it was cool , you know , it was cool to see her just like , like .
Speaker 1I can do that . That brings me back to arrow man with these . Listen , I've been shooting for three , four or 500 meters for a long time . Okay , but I want to . My goal in life is a hit a mile and beyond . Yeah , you know , come on .
Speaker 2Well , we have . We have the firearm . You know , it's easy to do with the , the modern technology and the modern rifles that they have . Well , I don't know if I would say it's easy , it's doable .
Speaker 1Doable . I think it's doable .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3It's , yeah , it's , it's , it's easily obtainable . How about that ? I think it's easily obtainable if you got enough money to throw at it .
Speaker 1Yeah , I , you know what I was looking around . I'm like I think I might have an optic for this thing too well what are you going to put on it ?
Speaker 3yeah , because we're debating that .
Speaker 1That's what I'm debating too , man . Uh , what do I have on hand here ? I want in a raffle , man , you know I've . I do have to give . I do have some luck in life here and there , but I have a vortex diamondback tactical 460 that's a nice thing to work yeah and we're looking a little bit less than that , I think I'm torn , I'm I .
Speaker 3I started looking at a couple of loopholes , but I heard arkin was good .
Speaker 1Arkin is one that's on the list and they're fairly good man .
Speaker 3And they're inexpensive .
Speaker 2I'm looking like sub-$1,000 . So like $800 , $500 to $800 , somewhere in that $500 to $900 .
Speaker 3I'm leaning more towards a budget build as well , just to get my foot in the game .
Speaker 2It's not just the optic , that's all I was doing . It's . You know you have to get a lot of other stuff right , so yeah , like ammo .
Speaker 1Holy crap , I just ordered ammo for that thing and I was like six , five creedmoor 750 uh , progressive , let's talk about that really quick .
Speaker 2So , like I was looking at reloading mainly because we're looking at this whole , so what caliber did you get in your solace ? Six , five , same yeah , same here .
Speaker 1So because I've had 308 so I'm like I want to try something new , gotcha .
Speaker 2So 6.5 and I was looking at , like what would it be to like hand load that you need ?
Speaker 3to yeah , A reloader , for that is more like you want a single state . Yeah , you want , just when you're reloading for like long range , like stuff like that , you want to be able to load one round at a time , right and the same round because you're not loading hundreds , you're loading .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's not the , the dylan 750 is more like that's more pistol , yeah , uh , or 223 or 556 , and it's really easy to interchange between loading those things . They have nice , you know , like cool setups for the plates and and all that , but a single stage is not that expensive , no , no .
Speaker 3But uh , to jason's point . You know you , they've got pretty good amount of powder in them . The projectiles are pretty pretty pricey . The brass is not cheap , right , and you do have more tools that you need besides just the hand loader . You need , um , you need a , a sizer for the brass . You need to make sure that , um , you can one of those tools to like , trim the brass because sometimes they expand . So it's not , it's not just . You know it's not just as easy . And you know , while you're not making hundreds of rounds , you know it's going to take you an hour or so to make I don't know 25 rounds .
Speaker 1Well , the thing is it too , is if you take a video of it , it looks really cool , especially if you make it look like a montage yeah , I guess you're building my bullet and going out to the range right now . Listen , I just looked at the diamondback tactical 416 by 44 and their msrp is 579.99 okay , oh , really , that's not bad , that isn .
Speaker 2And .
Speaker 1I . I won this in a raffle probably three , four years ago .
Speaker 3I didn't even , really we didn't look at any vortex yet .
Speaker 2No .
Speaker 1Yeah , but I keep hearing great things about Arctic .
Speaker 2Uh , arkon , yeah , that was definitely on our on our list Um primary arms like their stuff .
Speaker 2Um , I I like their stuff because I actually , years ago had bought something and I actually had a problem with it and they were excellent with their customer service . Actually , that's worth it . Right there they've moved to a lifetime warranty , but when I owned it it was not a lifetime warranty . They they did that later on and we had steven on the show , I forget why . I think he said he was like you know , we just were like you know , it's worth it to just back our product with a lifetime . But anyway , when I had the problem they were not and I had run out of my warranty and I called them and they were like don't worry about it , we'll , we'll send you another one anyway . And I was like damn , I'm like that's really good . And look what happened they have a customer for life .
Speaker 1Exactly If more people in the industry would look at it like that .
Speaker 2I you know it's funny so I won't drop any names but I recently had a bad experience with someone in the industry . Um , did not feel they were professional for various reasons , and it kind of bothered me . I didn't even tell you this . I was going to say this is news to me . It bothered me . I might have to pause and hear who it is so many people in the industry have been so good . Yeah , we've had overwhelming .
Improving Shooting Skills Through Competition
Speaker 2When you find one that's not you're like , how are you such an asshole Like ?
Speaker 2everyone else is pretty awesome in this industry .
Speaker 1Ah , believe me , I've had a few of those .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's very , very few . I mean , this one is fresh so it's sticking in my mind , but I can't think of too many , can you no ?
Speaker 3no , we've only had a couple that I was like , yeah , we don't need to talk to them again .
Speaker 1Yeah , Well , that's like the guess I've had , what 510 , 511 . And I'm always like out of all of them , maybe three or four were assholes I think I've already deleted their their episodes really , yeah , nobody .
Speaker 2I , even the one I'm thinking of , no one was ever like flat out and like an asshole . But there , there definitely were some that I thought were a little unprofessional and there were some I definitely thought , um , like I don't need to .
Speaker 1I had some . Some guy was fucking eating excuse my french eating uh , eating a , a plate of spaghetti as I'm trying to interview him , really , and he was like , and he was just like he didn't want to be there . And I was like , dude , I'm here to promote your book , right ? I'm here to help you , right ? If I remember , you reached out to me to be on my show .
Speaker 1It's like show shows where it ranks in the level of importance when they're uh eating spaghetti , right yeah , yeah , and I'm like this is you know , you're taking my time out of my day and I'm like it's just , you can't make it up , man I'm trying to and the only other one that I that I'm thinking of that came on .
Speaker 3It wasn't somebody on the podcast , but it was at a psa , a uspsa match . Okay , you and I were yeah , yeah , yeah , um , we . There was just this guy that was running the match . I don't know what . I don't know if it was he just had a burr up his ass .
Speaker 2I think it might have been like we were new .
Speaker 3We were new to this sport . You know , this was only my third us I think it was my third and it might've been your first , my first , for sure . And , um , you know , we were there with a group of people and and , um , they were helping us out . But this guy who wasn't even the RO , like he wasn't even in charge of the stage I'm shooting . And he goes up and he tries to start accusing me of not taking my finger off the trigger during transitioning from one part of the stage to the next oh , I definitely did . And and he's like no , you didn't , you're disqualified .
Speaker 3And I was like and I was because it was new to me , I didn't really know the rules in terms of like , what I could and couldn't say . Luckily , one of our friends that was there stood up for me and was like are you the range officer ? And and he goes no , and he and he goes and he looks at . And then the guy , our friend , looks at the range officer and says are you the range officer ? And he said yeah , and he goes . Well , did you see it ? And the range officer said no , and our friend Beck was like well then , what are we talking about here ?
Speaker 2Why are ?
Speaker 3we having a conversation and it turned out Mike had filmed it and there is video evidence that I did take my finger off the trigger . Oh , replay .
Speaker 2Yeah we slow-mo'd it .
Speaker 1Hey , you know , speaking of video evidence man , I've been using these Ray-Ban metas . Oh yeah , they are awesome for shooting , Are they ? They really are ? I mean , you can only do a minute at a time unless you live stream it .
Speaker 2It has the video quality . It's awesome man Is it .
Speaker 1Yeah , if you look at any of my IG stuff the first-person shooter type it's all the meta .
Speaker 2I noticed . I watched some of your stuff on IG . You do a lot of indoor shooting . It looks like .
Speaker 1You know I try to shoot everywhere I can . You know I try to shoot everywhere I can , but there's really not a lot of outdoor ranges , unless I travel here , Okay .
Speaker 2Keith , do you prefer indoor or outdoor ?
Speaker 1Outdoor .
Speaker 2I do too . I do too Big time I like to .
Speaker 1And here's what my problem is , and this especially comes down to LEO . This comes down to anybody shooting and listen . I could LARP all day long . I could shoot and look great , standing stationary , yep . And look great , standing stationary , yep . Lately I've been renting a private range over this X-Scout place just so I can move lateral Mm-hmm , because every time you shoot you should be moving , yep . I mean , yes , you need to take precision shots stationary , cool , whatever you got to do . The other reason is that when you're outside , you can move from point A to point B . I want to be able to move . Yeah , I think that in cover , you have to practice with cover when you're practicing reloads , when you're practicing this , and that you got to get your body behind something .
Speaker 2We have . We belong to a gun club but it's basically you know you're in , you're it's an indoor out , you're shooting from indoors out . You know 100 yards and but they're very strict . It's like you know you have to be , basically , you know in in a booth stationary , like no movement . And one time keith and I showed up with body armor . I think we freaked out the whole , the whole building we .
Speaker 3We ended up to a little corner by ourselves . Nobody wanted to shoot with us , but um I . We were just trying to get our heart rate up .
Speaker 2Yeah , exactly we just wanted to see what it felt like . But , um , we recently got , uh , our own private range small but outdoor range and um , I recently was out there and then I was doing exactly what you're talking about , like doing more like movement stuff , and it felt so great well , you know , when you talk about the body armor , that's one thing I've noticed is , like the agency or the department I was just working with is they issue out our carriers .
Speaker 1Now you know , most of the time they were using um body armor underneath their shirts and stuff . Yep , when you issue out our carriers and you start getting all batman utility belt , I've noticed so many people when they try to reload they can't find their damn mag pouch because they're so bulky , but you have to practice with your gear and you have to be able to move with it .
Speaker 1Yep for sure , one of the other reasons I haven't been competing as much as I used to is because I like to shoot and I like to kind of use cover . I don't like shooting any open . I like , when I'm doing my reloads , I like to get behind cover and I found myself when I'm doing a competition is that I'm just doing speed , I'm throwing everything else at a wind . Right and listen , idpa is like you got to shoot right to left . I'm like look , I shoot where I see the targets , I shoot as fast as I can and I put the bullets on target where they're supposed to be . So it's been kind of tough . I'm looking for more of the outlaw type shooting now .
Speaker 3Okay there isn't and was it pcl .
Speaker 2Is that the new one psl ? Pcl , I think , is outlaw . Yeah , we've had this debate many , many times and you know , ultimately , when you shoot competitively I don't want to speak for you , keith I know we've disagreed and I think we've come to more of a conclusion , but you know , anytime you're shooting and you're and you're being forced to shoot different stages , it's going to make you better .
Speaker 1There's no doubt about it . Oh , I believe me Absolutely . I absolutely agree with you that you should compete . I think everybody should compete .
Speaker 2But the thing is is like I think it can create some sloppy habits because , because you're , you know , if you're trying to like work that timer , um , there is potential for that . But I will say this that timer is also a really powerful tool in terms of when I was shooting the other day I got to show you videos of this , keith there was a couple of times where , like , I ran into some snags and I had to do a reload and I watched the video like over and over and over and I was like and I don't practice that a whole lot , I have to be honest I was like I thought the reload was pretty slick , like I was pretty impressed , but I was working that timer . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1so like that timer was kind of making me in the back of my head like move , you know I had I had to move yeah , and I think you guys should roll in some dummy rounds too yeah oh yeah we , I double feeds , dummy rounds , all sorts stuff .
Speaker 3I recently with a new shooter with a shotgun . You know just , it was a semi-automatic shotgun and it was an A300 , actually , and I just I tricked them and just loaded a you know a dummy round in there and it got them all jammed up and it took them like a minute to get through it . But yeah , I think that's a great , a great training thing to do for yourself .
Speaker 1Yeah , well . Well , guys , you know we've gone on here for a while . We're probably going to talk for another six hours like we're on here . But yeah , man , everybody's got to check out the gun experiment podcast . You guys are going to have jack car on . You've always wanted noir and some everyday shooters . Who'd you guys ask for the other day ? You want to contact with someone ? I don't think I had it .
Speaker 2Maybe I do clinton emerson uh , yes , yes , yes , yep yeah I think it was 100 deadly , 100 deadly skills . I think that's yeah , I got all the books , man , they're all yeah , they're kind of kind of cool right , so I thought he'd be a cool one to have on .
Speaker 3I think he'd be a good , good guest yeah , well , now you've had us on , so you got your wish .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah you got the guest . I've been waiting for this one forever . I'm so glad you know what that was . I tell you what I was for that last job I had up , I had to get up at 4 am and now that those days are over with , I'm like I actually have energy at nine o'clock at night . I'm like I could do this . Yeah , because before I'd be like , oh man , can we just reschedule ?
Speaker 3I'm exhausted man , that's funny uh , well , I'm glad we got to , got to hang out with you and uh and catch up again .
Speaker 1We need to shoot we need to get together and shoot . Yeah , we need to document this arrow , uh , so that would be cool .
Speaker 3That would be cool , yeah because we need some guidance in that .
Speaker 1But jason , we need a little .
Speaker 3We need a little help . Yeah , we'd love
Long-Range Shooting Skill Discussion
Speaker 3to do that . That'd be awesome . Do you do you shoot speaking of this real quick before we get do you do moa or mills ?
Speaker 1moa . But I could do it . I could do mills . Believe me , bro , I don't know shit about shooting long range . Listen , you're three , four , five hundred meters out , boom . Okay , I got you , bro , I got . Yeah . Yeah , anything over that I'm like and at that point it's just like this scope kind of lines up you're good to go I have shot long range 22 like .
Speaker 3I've shot like 300 yard plus 22s and when I was doing it the people I was doing it with says that is as close to trying to shoot a thousand plus yards with yards with a 6'5 Creedmoor .
Speaker 1Well , we're going to find out now , because you just said hey , you're an excellent shot at 1,000-plus yards with a .22 .
Speaker 3I did not say that . I said it was an excellent shot . I said I have shot 22 long-range , 300-plus yards .
Speaker 1There we go , Boom . You're an excellent shot now with a 6'5 Creedmoor .
Speaker 2It's on tape . It's on tape , we have it on tape .
Speaker 3Took me five shots to hit that , by the way .
Speaker 1Okay , Rudy , make sure you check out the gun experiment .
Speaker 2Thanks for having us on .
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